Two Seamers

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JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
That'd be my thought... What say you OILF ???? 4 or not??? All 1/7 & 2 seams........... ??????????

STK_4pitches.gif


When the time comes- you are doing my DDs skills videos.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Yea... I like how you typed that. I been tryin to tell you guys this for a couple years. I have stuck to the two seam pitch from the get go....even when a Big Time & everyone of DD's coaches tries to tell me I have the tape on the ball wrong. :cool: JJ your almost there...

EP: You really want to see more....every pitch I have ever posted of DD pitching is 2~SEAM...

Screw.gif


EP: Woops...re-read....Not sure if this is a high enough level for you or not...:cool:

She looks great PC. Keep after it and when she gets older I have a list of SEC, ACC, B1G and other coaches that know it works. :)
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
I'm afraid you guys are chasing unicorns.

Did you read the articles from the two PHD Physicists that say otherwise?

I read the article by Nathan and by Rod Cross and they don't say otherwise.

In the Hardball Times article, Nathan says, "What I meant to say is that a typical 2S fastball (as opposed to a splitter) has its spin axis tilted relative to a 4S." The tilt of the spin axis has to do with different release positions (arm position at release) of a 2S vs. a 4S. He didn't make any statement about differences in movement based on 2S or 4S orientation.

The "Aerodynamics in the classroom and at the ball park" by Dr. Rod Cross says:

When thrown as a 2–seam or 4–seam fastball (in terms of its orientation rather than speed) the ball did not deflect sideways since the seam remained symmetrical in the y-direction.

No deflection = no sideways movement = both have the same movement.

Additionally, the Cross articles refers to two different studies which also showed that seem orientation did not affect ball movement.

In baseball, it is possible for the pitcher to change his arm position at release. Changing the arm position at release changes the rotation axis of a ball, changing the movement of the ball. In softball, the pitcher can't change the arm position at release. She is "stuck" withe arm being perpendicular to the ground at release.

And, of course, pitchers can change the ball through scuffing or applying foreign substances to teh ball.

But, again, simply throwing a ball in a 2S vs. a 4S orientation doesn't change the ball flight.
 
Last edited:
Jun 24, 2010
465
0
Mississippi
I can't speak to softball, but as a former baseball catcher, there is a difference in the 2 and 4 seem pitch. It's not perceived, the movement is different.
 
Mar 3, 2015
142
0
Michigan
Is this different movement than you would get throwing a cutter? I've been working with my kid on a cutter and it's going well, but the movement sounds similar to what you all are describing.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
I'm afraid you guys are chasing unicorns.



I read the article by Nathan and by Rod Cross and they don't say otherwise.

In the Hardball Times article, Nathan says, "What I meant to say is that a typical 2S fastball (as opposed to a splitter) has its spin axis tilted relative to a 4S." The tilt of the spin axis has to do with different release positions (arm position at release) of a 2S vs. a 4S. He didn't make any statement about differences in movement based on 2S or 4S orientation.

The "Aerodynamics in the classroom and at the ball park" by Dr. Rod Cross says:



No deflection = no sideways movement = both have the same movement.

Additionally, the Cross articles refers to two different studies which also showed that seem orientation did not affect ball movement.

In baseball, it is possible for the pitcher to change his arm position at release. Changing the arm position at release changes the rotation axis of a ball, changing the movement of the ball. In softball, the pitcher can't change the arm position at release. She is "stuck" withe arm being perpendicular to the ground at release.

And, of course, pitchers can change the ball through scuffing or applying foreign substances to teh ball.

But, again, simply throwing a ball in a 2S vs. a 4S orientation doesn't change the ball flight.

You are misrepresenting the article Sluggers. The whole gist of the article is that with a two seam orientation, the rough v smooth surface can be achieved far better than a 4 seam pitch by slightly tilting the axis of rotation. This is what causes the movement. Yes- if both sides of the ball see the same airflow characteristics then it does not matter how the seams are oriented, but a 2 seam pitch can have a large circular area of smoothness on one side of the ball and rough seams on the other by changing the axis slightly, a 4 seam pitch cannot have this in nearly the same amount.


Or put another way, does a knuckleball have movement? if so then why? It isn't spin, it is the pressure gradient caused by a smooth vs rough surface to the wind.
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
I'm excited, another physics issue! I think we need overhead, roof-top video for comparative purposes. What are the odds that pobguy will make another appearance and not all of us will agree with him?
 

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