Meatballs - Topic Revisited

Greenmonsters said:

There's something integral to pitching instruction that has never made any sense to me. Wouldn't it be much simpler and more practical if the focus of pitching instruction was geared simply toward consistently hitting a target, regardless of location relative to the home plate??? If you learn to pitch to a target then it really doesn't matter where the target is i.e., middle of plate, inside edge, 2 balls outside, high, low, etc. Home plate would only be necessary during games! Am I crazy or crazy like a fox?

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Absolutely. There comes a time when you need to learn to pitch relative to the batter and not relative to the plate.

JAD said:

Throwing BP does not need to be "meatballs", but it needs to be a lot more strikes than balls. Live pitching and BP are two different things.

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Live pitching should resemble what is observed in games.

You aren't going to see pitching in games where you can count 100% on a ball that is a "good pitch to hit". Hitters need to learn to hit in an environment in which a 'strike' can't be counted on for every pitch.

Out in Left Field said:

I hear about the alleged meatballs but I never see them. Our kids go 1001% all the time, even on warm up throws, so I am not sure where you find such a meatball thrower. Just by spinning the ball, it is moving...and you really can't go halfway on that. It is not baseball, people.

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Got to tell you .... having used pitchers to throw live on multiple occasions, I've yet to come across a pitcher that wants to get shelled. Neither does the batter wish to go 0-for-4. Both pitchers and hitters are motivated. Simply allow the competitive nature to work .... and use it to prepare for games.

One of the biggest issues with many HS teams is that the batters don't see a lot of live pitching. At many HS's about the only live pitching seen is during actual games. Not uncommon to see early season games that look extremely amateurish.

Also not uncommon for many players to use the HS season as a 'warm-up' for their post-HS club travel teams.

Then of course there are HS teams where live pitching takes place ... some even before the season begins .... and they generally stand out .... especially early in the season.

FiveFrameSwing said:

Many pitchers are simply not big-time strikeout pitchers. A "pitch to contact" strategy works well for many pitchers.

There are many pitchers that share a common goal with the batter .... in terms of contact being made. Such a pitcher wants the ball to be put in play for the team to field the out.

Given a good pitch caller, and a pitcher with good location/movement, a strategy of going against a #3 to #5 batter with an approach of collecting an out with a single pitch, can be more productive than a strategy of going after a KO.

Sorry to break it to you ..... but it's a "team sport" .... and many pitchers eventually need to learn that.

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While in theory this sounds logical, the reality is pitchers first goal is to go after the batter and get a strikeout. Other than 8u where you are just hoping to have the pitcher throw the pitch somewhere near the strikezone, once they have some control of their pitches and introduce change ups and breaking pitches, they are not intentionally letting the batters put the ball in play. Not on my DDs travel ball team, not in the Lamat v Dartmouth game, not on Team USA. With these hot bats, better conditioned athletes, and excellent hitting instruction, you make a pitching mistake and the ball will be hit hard, very hard...I have not seen a successful fastpitch pitcher who regularly and intentionally tries to induce contact. They won't last long in the circle. Being a team player has nothing to do with this topic.

Rocketech1 said:

While in theory this sounds logical, the reality is pitchers first goal is to go after the batter and get a strikeout. Other than 8u where you are just hoping to have the pitcher throw the pitch somewhere near the strikezone, once they have some control of their pitches and introduce change ups and breaking pitches, they are not intentionally letting the batters put the ball in play. Not on my DDs travel ball team, not in the Lamat v Dartmouth game, not on Team USA. With these hot bats, better conditioned athletes, and excellent hitting instruction, you make a pitching mistake and the ball will be hit hard, very hard...I have not seen a successful fastpitch pitcher who regularly and intentionally tries to induce contact. They won't last long in the circle. Being a team player has nothing to do with this topic.

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Not speaking from theory here Rocket, but from experience.

We agree on one point. If a pitcher makes a mistake, then at the higher levels they will pay the price and be hit hard a fair percentage of times for their mistakes.

The reason for this is because at the higher levels hitters are more polished. It isn’t like many HS teams where batters 7-9 represent a high opportunity strike-out. Being able to size up a big hitter for a weakness, and set them up for a one-pitch out, is a big part of the game.

Looking at the HS stats where I live, in a typical year the number of pitchers across the entire state (for HS’s in the largest geographic segment), with a 'strike-out/bb' ratio greater than 8, can be counted on one-hand. In fact, the number of pitchers that have a 'strike-out/bb' ratio greater than 4 can be counted on just two hands.

There are a large number of pitchers that fall below a 'strike-out/bb' ratio of 2.5. While I understand the fantasy of the majority pitchers thinking they are strike-out goddesses, reality does not bear that out.

While HS ball is a relatively low level of ball, many of the better pitchers end up playing HS ball. Where I live it isn’t uncommon for the lower portion of the batting order to be largely unproductive. For an ace strike-out pitcher, batters #7, #8 and #9 represent easy prey. In other words, an ace strike-out pitcher can easily collect 6-9 strike-outs per game simply by feasting on the bottom of the batting line-up. You would think the 'strike-out/bb' ratio would be high ... but the majority of pitchers realize a low strike-out/bb ratio.

At the higher levels 'pitch calling' is important .... it isn't so much about striking the batter out, but getting them out .... and the opportunities increase to realize that result when you can use the entire team.

From a pitcher’s perspective, hitters need to be kept uncomfortable.

Don’t put yourself in a position where the opposing team is able to sit on your fastball/dropball.

Keep track of each pitch sequence and don’t allow your attacks against the opposing batters to become predictable.

The pitch caller should be accessing the opponent’s swings and identifying swing weaknesses. If you have video ahead of time … then study it and learn where you can locate pitches for balls put weakly in play for an easy out. Find out if a batter has a weakness such that if the ball is hit, it has a low probability of being driven solidly.

The pitch caller and pitcher should learn early who owns the inside half of the plate. Determine early which hitters can handle speed inside.

Learn early who the over aggressive hitters are that can be induced into putting a weak ball in play with off-speed.

Use off-speed pitches as part of the arsenal for keeping batters off balance.

On a 3-0 count, have the mindset and ability to take the hitter down with one more pitch.

With time running low, and the need to get another inning in, know how to execute a strategy of getting through the other team’s offense in 3-5 pitches.

In addition to keeping batters off balance with speed … have a mastery of 3-4 other pitches. Give your pitch caller the ammunition to orchestrate the battle.

For many head coaches, consider collecting the team together and delivering the following message. Tell them that it is not your expectation for your pitchers to throw a high percentage of strike-outs. Tell them that your pitchers are working on location and that your expectation is for the team to field the majority of the outs. Set the tone. Let your players believe, that you believe, that defense wins games.

When my DD was in 18u, the pitchers would occasionally throw live batting practice.

All 3 pitchers would go up and each batter would take 2-3 pitches from each pitcher of the same pitch.

Say, Change-ups, each pitcher would throw 2-3 Changes. The batter knows change-ups are coming.
On the next round, it may be riseballs, batter knows riseballs are coming.

It gives the hitter a chance to watch the pitcher, watch the release, watch the spin, see the differences in how different pitchers throw different pitches.
It also challenges the pitcher to throw it as best as they can, knowing they have a hitter on the other end that knows it's coming.

I have never had my "production quality" pitchers pitch batting practice. By batting practice I mean intentionally throwing a pitch with the intention that it would be fairly easy for a batter to hit it. However, it is important for hitters to be able to work on their swings and so coaches or "non-production quality" pitchers perform that roll.

It is also important for pitchers and hitters to get real "live" practice where the pitcher is doing everything they can to get the hitter out and the hitter is trying everything they can to get a hit. This is where my "production quality" pitchers get in a lot of work.

I also believe that it is good practice for hitters to work on recognizing pitches and so it makes sense for them to know what is coming (i.e. change up, rise ball,...) and adjust to it.

However, I can never get myself to adopt a "pitch to contact" philosophy. What if you miss your spot and you leave it over the plate for a meatball? No doubt not even the best pitchers are not going to get a strikeout every time they pitch, but throwing something to be hit strikes me as a mistake.

Doug Romrell said:

I have no problem at all with pitchers throwing at hitting practice if they are able to throw their stuff, rather than be told to just throw meatballs.

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Agreed. Our girls practice all Winter off a machine because we're indoors, then they have trouble hitting a good movement pitcher come Spring. Well of course they do - totally different experiences! I like our pitchers to bring it, and the batters to learn to adjust to different pitching styles so they aren't as intimidated when it's showtime.

What are we always hearing from coaches? "Practice like you play." At no time during a game is my DD ever going to be told to throw meatballs consistently. Muscle memory all the way.

And I asked my DD before I replied about this - because honestly I was on the fence about the "contact vs K" part of this thread. As a parent, I see both sides of this. Her response was that her #1 goal is to always go for the strikeout (I mean, what pitcher doesn't dream of a no-hitter?) but that sometimes you know with a good hitter that is unlikely - so she tries to make the ball move in such a way that it's able to be fielded for the out. Trusting your defense becomes a huge factor in this. So I guess you're both right? Didn't my DD just basically oversimplify pitching?