is it truely a 1-7 spin or is more of a ...

When I throw the ball myself not My DD I get more of a 12-6 spin but the line is 1 inch to the left of the center of the ball seen from the catcher and completely vertical but diagonal on the balls axis. Reason I am asking is my DD never gets this spin a matter of fact I can not duplicate the spin she gets "I HAVE TRIED" so when I do it the line is completely vertical 12-6 but is traveling like I threw the ball toward the direction of behind the right handed batter but goes straight. I am Assuming mine is right but am just curious ....

Yes. Vertical line facing 1 on the dial.

I don't teach a fastball but if it is a drop ball you are throwing then I would say that the spin you are putting on the ball is off axis.

When I start with a beginner pitcher I don't care so much if the top spin is inwards so long as the pitching action is correct.

As the pitcher develops I try to break the inward spin and look for more straight top spin and the ball should development a better shape.

I am interested to hear what some of the other pitching instructors from the USA think about this.

dmaeganx2 said:

When I throw the ball myself not My DD I get more of a 12-6 spin but the line is 1 inch to the left of the center of the ball seen from the catcher and completely vertical but diagonal on the balls axis. Reason I am asking is my DD never gets this spin a matter of fact I can not duplicate the spin she gets "I HAVE TRIED" so when I do it the line is completely vertical 12-6 but is traveling like I threw the ball toward the direction of behind the right handed batter but goes straight. I am Assuming mine is right but am just curious ....

Click to expand...

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/17133-what-do-i-mean.html

BoardMember said:

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/17133-what-do-i-mean.html

Click to expand...

yea that is what mine looks like my dd at best I can figure when her fastball is called she is throwing some kind of rise/curve spin. I think I know why her arm has always bothered her coach when she pitched because she did not hit the drop for a strike enough consistently called her fastball but she has always had that rotation when she threw it. I am not letting her throw it right now till we get it worked out and proper her drop and change does not seem to bother her arm. So in a weekend she might throw that weird spinning pitch 300 or 400 times I am convinced its some kind of improper rise/curve ...

Hi BM,

A bit about myself.

I am a men's pitcher who learnt to pitch as a kid in New Zealand. I have only a few students including 2 who have thrown state here in Oz.
I used to teach the kids HE when they were learning to pitch.
One day I found your forum and started to read about IR. This style made a lot of sense to me and with the help of an iPhone slo-mo app I found that I didn't teach the kids the way I pitched myself.
Most of the instructors here don't know what IR is and still teach text book HE.

I have a few questions about IR though:

Is the pitch described by dmaeganx2 a fastball pitch?
Once the pitcher has mastered the IR how do you teach to straighten the spin to make the ball drop or is the spin demonstrated by you above the finished product?

Thanks MB

The spin I'm demonstrating is basically fastball. This spin ensures 2 things. One, the ball is being released at peak acceleration, or "mid-snap". Two, the pitch is NOT bullet spin, so it has no propensity to "rifle" through the air and cut a flat straight swath to the target.

Playing with the grip and seam orientation can result in a cutter, down-in drop, or running fastball.

Once this pitch is mastered, it's not hard to manipulate the thumb, fingers and/or wrist orientation to create whatever spin is called for.

BoardMember said:

Playing with the grip and seam orientation can result in a cutter, down-in drop, or running fastball.

Click to expand...

Could you explain how you teach the down-in? I'm REALLY curious as to your take on this pitch. Are you coming up the ball with I/R... like a peel action?

Not familiar with the name... is the running fastball a 2-seam tailing fastball?

And then a cutter... what's the distinction you make with either the grip or seam orientation?... is this more of grip variation... or undercut spin... or are you just focused on more of a rollover drop action?

IOW, I really wanna know your spin on these pitches...

Going to add to this... so as to actually include some thoughts (willing to be right or wrong) of my own for the sake of a better discussion:

I originally bought into the concept of finger pressure for the in-cut -as a part of the grip, like index into the ball. However, I noticed that when I do this... I don't always get the spin I want. I seem to get more of a 7-1, 8-2 when I think about getting my thumb off the ball sooner AND coming up the inside of the ball with I/R as opposed to that feel of 'rolling' over it...if that makes sense.

As far as the 2-seam fastball... I'm assuming that's what you call a running fastball. To me, I've noticed more of a 'bend'... for lack of a better word in this... versus the 4-seam grip... but I also spin the crap out of a ball. To me, the I/R is the same as in a FB... just the seam orientation is different.

As far as the cutter... are you using a a drop action, like a rollover?... cause this is the only way I've been able to throw/teach it with girls that can really spin the ball.

Thanks.

A few more questions for you when you have time:

A running fastball - is this a pitch with straight top spin on it 12 - 6 with no axis variation?

What do you think the best finishing position for the hand is? I notice you finish out in front, shoulder high with palm down.
I have a young pitcher who quite often finishes the pitch with his palm in font of his face facing the catcher. I don't like it, continue to try and change it, but I am wondering if it is that important as it does not seem to hinder the pitch.

I'm going to be cheeky here and ask if you have any pitching material showing the release of a good 12 - 6 drop ball pitch or maybe a description about how to achieve good top spin.

I have been experimenting with my DD different release techniques to achieve different spins but I wonder if sometimes I am contradicting the basics I have read about IR.

Thanks MB

Thanks MB

Wow,

Beat me to it.