2 Drive mechanics questions

1. When getting the stride knee up and leg out what happens with the foot? Do you use force to get it down faster or just natural gravity? I've tried the motion myself and using force seems to stop heal strike and make the stride faster.

2. Is there some adduction in the legs (mainly pulling of the drive leg)that would help the drag foot finish properly and firm up the front leg?

I know these are strange questions and I may be totally off. I have read and reread the drive mechanics sticky. I'm just still having questions while trying to figure things out to help DD.

Thanks

ga_smith said:

1. When getting the stride knee up and leg out what happens with the foot? Do you use force to get it down faster or just natural gravity? I've tried the motion myself and using force seems to stop heal strike and make the stride faster.

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Not sure what you mean with what happens to the foot... but I like the way you're thinking. I've always had a hard time with the descriptions of hinged hip angles. I know that RP and RB use them during instruction... but I have the hardest time trying to pull it off... or students for that matter. There's so much stability in that region... or should be... it just seems like something that's harder to pull off than the description. I write all of that... because when I teach a pitcher to get forward... I do it by energy, not lack thereof. For example, take a drop ball... I want that pitcher vertical... and with her rear side into her front side. You can go about this by striding less... but, IMO... that's a horrible way to get vertical. That said...

I've had great success teaching drop balls to pitchers... by telling them to get out as hard and fast as they can with their drive leg... and then get down hard and fast... like you describe above. So, yes... I use that thought of getting the stride foot down to help pitchers get vertical. It takes the up out of their stride... without removing the 'out'... which is the whole purpose of driving out.

ga_smith said:

2. Is there some adduction in the legs (mainly pulling of the drive leg)that would help the drag foot finish properly and firm up the front leg?

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To me... the key is to create linear force (forward and early) off of the plate... so that as the legs abduct into full extension of the stride... the FORWARD force you created off the plate ASSISTS you in returning to a more adducted and natural position. IOW... rather than pulling your rear leg forward... it gathers forward because of how fast and hard you pushed from the rubber... and then this forward force... increases the ground force resistance on plant. These opposing forces allow the body to gather in... more naturally.

At the end of the pitch, you'll see what some call hip snap, or a forceful medial rotation of the rear thigh into release. Maximizing this motion is much easier the closer your extremities are to your core. Pulling a dragging zombie leg forward creates way too much upper body movement... something you'll see in pitchers that bend at the waist forward too much (an anchored rear leg causes the upper body to continue forward). Again... all that is cured if you maximize the timing and force of the push off the rubber.

Hope that helps...

Thanks, JS. Can't tell you how much your Drive Mechanics thread has meant to us. Really appreciate your knowledge and ability to communicate it. Not to mention that you're willing to take the time to do so.

Thanks javasource for the reply. I know my questions are poorly worded in terms of kinesiology and such. Those classes are long forgotten. Your answer did help in my understanding of the getting the foot down quickly. Some pitchers we have get the leg out but it seems lazy and causes a leap. I think tweaking the words I use with them in this area will help.

Also "it gathers forward because of how fast and hard you pushed from the rubber" makes more sense. I think getting the stride foot down quicker will probably help with this as well.

Java, will the "cracking the walnut" thought come into play here with assisting the drive foot in coming forward aggressively?

Squeezing the glutes will definitely draw the leg in... that usually happens into release. Your DD could benefit a lot from adduction, and then the walnut. Get her going on the redcord, and once she's done with that... you'll really see these two parts of the pitch come together. Wish I could work with you guys every week... her drop ball is one of the best I've ever seen.

Thanks for the compliment Java and no one wishes you could work with my DD more often than I do!!!

drc9805 said:

Thanks for the compliment Java and no one wishes you could work with my DD more often than I do!!!

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I second that

First off, really been enjoying all the information that comes out of this site. I've been reading at it for years. I just wanted to get a little deeper into what javasource says here.

At the end of the pitch, you'll see what some call hip snap, or a forceful medial rotation of the rear thigh into release. Maximizing this motion is much easier the closer your extremities are to your core. Pulling a dragging zombie leg forward creates way too much upper body movement... something you'll see in pitchers that bend at the waist forward too much (an anchored rear leg causes the upper body to continue forward). Again... all that is cured if you maximize the timing and force of the push off the rubber.

I think this is a very often overlooked concept and one that is often misinterpreted. What some call hip snap is not at all a hip snap, but like javasource says, is a medial rotation of the thigh. Almost every video of high level pitchers (Ueno, Abbot, Osterman, Luna, Pauly... and on) shows that their drive leg knee cap is driving towards or facing the plate just a little before release (driving may not be the right word). I don't know, but I think the rotation of the thigh is more easily taught as a rotation of the drive leg knee, down and in. Kind of like you are going to genuflect, but you can't because your left leg is resisting as you are landing and you are also flying forward. I don't know if it's worth teaching or what , so I am asking what the forum thinks.

For example when doing boardmember's drills for the feel of IR, it just feels more natural to let the back knee drop and turn as your front side resists up and forward as you do the drill instead of just leaving the back leg just hang there. It's a way of shifting weight forward and into the pitch, kind of like hitting.

Is there anything to this thought?

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Goosesdad... really like your style of writing. You sound like a pretty smart cat. Genuflect... that's an awesome descriptor.

I see it as a product, not an effort. I see this as a product of a well balanced core that efficiently receives the large amount of force from the ground. When you mix in good timing and an unweighted drive leg (that reached maximum extension BEFORE the stride leg did)... this is the result: