Breaking Pitches and Wear and Tear on the Arm

Out in Left Field said:

I am signing off on this topic.

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Thank you for the Valuable Input.

Ken Krause said:

Big thing to watch out for is hunching the throwing shoulder. In their effort to try to raise the flight of the ball, pitchers will sometimes pull the shoulder up, anywhere from a little to a lot. That creates tension throughout the arm and could cause injury. Be sure she's keeping the throwing side shoulder relaxed. Usually the problem is with the shoulder but I suppose it could travel down.

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Ken,
She's actually not shoulder shrugging...well I should say she gets 3 lashes from a cat o' nine tails by her PC every time she does it, which is rare. She doesn't care for the scarring. In all seriousness, her PC gets upset with her when she does it...harping that she's going to "Blow your shoulder up" (her exact words)

JJS said:

A little help on this pitch for your DD... When girls are learning this pitch they tend to "smother" the ball into the ground because they think a drop is always supposed to be low. Two biggest mistakes I have seen on this pitch(no expert just personal experience) are young girls will bend at the hips because a PC has told them to get their weight forward. This creates a "bowling" motion with the arm stuck behind the body, and the ball pushed into the ground. Weight forward is correct, but the pitcher still needs to be tall.
The second thing to watch on this pitch is the shoulder angle. It may be too angled into the dirt towards home. A 1+/- inch adjustment up or down can really change the trajectory of the roll over drop.

Most probably, it is issue #1, but without video who knows for sure. Again, I am no expert, but have worked a bunch with this particular pitch.

$0.02

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Like I said, this is REALLY new to her. Just a couple of weeks, and she really being encouraged to get a forward tilt to get the back shoulder slightly above the front shoulder....WITHOUT shrugging. I see it so exaggerated that she often falls forward at release.

PapaPump said:

I think you will be surprised that even at 14U your DD can be successful with either a FB or Drop and a good CU. I would keep working hard on the CU. I think it is a must at 14u. If she can learn to place that drop inside and outside and a different levels she can be very successful with just that and her CU. Once she learns to control her drop some throw it with a "loose wrist" and she can get movement like a DC. As she learns the Drop this will happen some without even trying.

Again, drop is a great pitch...but got to have a CU at 14U IMO.

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She spent the better part of a year on the change. She just moved onto the drop recently as she's gotten a lot better locating the change. So yeah...I agree, if she hadn't gotten to the point she can consistently hit the change, she wouldn't be working on the drop.

javasource said:

Perhaps the tension in the forearm and wrist she feels afterwards was a result of trying to rollover the ball with tension in her wrist and forearm... like turn a doorknob style? Not the way to throw it, IMO. Is this pitch as fast as her FB? What was the instruction she received?

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I will take the "instruction" offline with you if you don't mind. But a quick answer to your speed question...I believe it is just about as fast....when she throws it as instructed. There are times she comes around the outside of the ball and gets a goofy diagonal spin like a drop curve..... that has nothing on it. When she gets over the top, it's maybe 2-3 mph off her fastball...which I can expect, since the stride is literally about half of that of her fastball.

Honest question. What is the difference between pitching fastball with IR and the roll over drop? Other than getting the spine angle more upright?

The only reason I show this clip is to show (somewhat) the roll-over drop. This is not how a fastball with IR is thrown.

Doug Romrell said:

The only reason I show this clip is to show (somewhat) the roll-over drop. This is not how a fastball with IR is thrown.

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Does anyone have slo-mo of fastball with IR release vs rollover drop release?

Doug Romrell said:

The only reason I show this clip is to show (somewhat) the roll-over drop. This is not how a fastball with IR is thrown.

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I know the origin of this video... and IMO (not wanting to start a pissing contest)... this is NOT how this pitch is thrown. This style would have the pinky as the last finger off the ball... whereas in real life... the index/middle is/are.

With SoGaSoftball's question...

Maximizing pronation (palm-up to palm-down) and raising the release point through posture mods, IMO.

Rick Pauly has a nice video of Sarah throwing the 'rollover', Doug... and if I had to guess... that Amanda video that gets around is of a 'rollover', too.

javasource said:

I know the origin of this video... and IMO (not wanting to start a pissing contest)... this is NOT how this pitch is thrown. This style would have the pinky as the last finger off the ball... whereas in real life... the index/middle is/are.

With SoGaSoftball's question...

Maximizing pronation (palm-up to palm-down) and raising the release point through posture mods, IMO.

Rick Pauly has a nice video of Sarah throwing the 'rollover', Doug... and if I had to guess... that Amanda video that gets around is of a 'rollover', too.

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this is exactly how a rollover drop it thrown what pauly teaches is a variation of the peel called a snapover drop ...

I hate the rollover drop

I have paulys snapover drop video But I am not sure I sould post any of it here because I purchased it and not sure how he would take it

but imagine your hand being slightly behind your wrist at release causing your middle finger and index finger to come more up over the top inside of the ball of the ball through release with a tall posture and more front heavy weight distribution he teaches snapping the middle finger and index finger up and in right on release as the ball is leaving fingers

D,

I know this is how many people TEACH it, but it is not what actually happens.

Show me a video of a high-level pitcher throwing it in a game... and it not going straight into the ground. You can't have your hand on top of the ball, and then in front of the ball, and expect it to go forward.

Just friendly chatter, that's all.

I was also a part of the 'renaming' of the pitch with Rick on here... and know that he hates the name... and prefers to call it differently. This was one of said posts.

javasource said:

D,

I know this is how many people TEACH it, but it is not what actually happens.

Show me a video of a high-level pitcher throwing it in a game... and it not going straight into the ground. You can't have your hand on top of the ball, and then in front of the ball, and expect it to go forward.

I was also a part of the 'renaming' of the pitch with Rick on here... and know that he hates the name... and prefers to call it differently.

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That's the point exactly I do not think anyone that gets taught it this way gets to the next level ... I do not believe they will have an arm left to get there...


But that is exactly how the rollover gets taught around here that is why I hate it ...

javasource said:

D,

I know this is how many people TEACH it, but it is not what actually happens.

Show me a video of a high-level pitcher throwing it in a game... and it not going straight into the ground. You can't have your hand on top of the ball, and then in front of the ball, and expect it to go forward.

Just friendly chatter, that's all.

I was also a part of the 'renaming' of the pitch with Rick on here... and know that he hates the name... and prefers to call it differently. This was one of said posts.

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Thanks a bunch! Missed that thread...