what is she throwing ???

I wouldn't spend much time worrying about the hand getting behind the ball. Learn to whip then learn to spin.

Spinning is not the focus I was worried about , Before we started working on the whip she was very accurate at about 46 but right now she is high at 46 so I am more worried about the mechanical cause then the balls spin orientation. I think what you said about pulling down into the whip further is the mechanical flaw in the whip that is causing the high pitches due to how it orients the hand coming into the release phase of the whip

hope that makes sense

Trust the brush as the trigger for release. I also say, "Pitch from the pocket." I'd also do what you can to take accuracy out of the equation until she can feel the whip. Once she dials in whip with brush, she might be able to throw with her eyes closed!

Ken B said:

Trust the brush as the trigger for release. I also say, "Pitch from the pocket." I'd also do what you can to take accuracy out of the equation until she can feel the whip. Once she dails in whip with brush, she might be able to throw with her eyes closed!

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Love it! That is a great description of it

Nobody seems to point this out with your DD, but in all the vids of her posted, i see a persistent trait that has to do with her "finish" and probably originates with her shoulder?

She looks to have a "forced finish" to me, which means that cognitively, she is fixated on something at release and/or follow through that she is forcing to happen. Because its a forced motion, body tenseness will precede it.

What I'm seeing is a "lift" with the shoulder and was looks like a forced rotation of the arm, probably because shes fixated on a "palm down" finish?

To really whip the ball, the movements should be loose and relaxed. The palm down finish just happens as a result of what happens prior in the pitch. If shes forcing a particular finish, its undoubtedly taking away from her whip and therefore velocity and spin.

If it were me, I'd be working on getting a nice loose and relaxed arm motion, all the way through the pitch. Stop trying to "horse" the ball with the shoulder, and not worry about arm position after the ball has been released.

Corlay your right about it and I have been trying to see where it comes from. I believe it may be the same problem causing it that is causing the high throws in the first place here is 5 stills from 9 - release there is no ball lag at all I believe that is the problem her elbow is flexed but it is very slight and more flexed toward third then up if that makes sense

It looks like she released the ball late on this pitch but I agree with Corlay on the shoulder thing. Her shoulder raises and her elbow goes out and around. She looks really good at 11 and 9 but IMO she starts to IR the humerus slightly early (keep the ball up with the elbow facing down just a tad longer). She does need to keep her hand inside the ball until that last immediate portion of pronation so I don't see an issue there at all. She just needs to relax her shoulder and let the arm/hand do what it does on it's own! She has a lot of good stuff happening!!

yes the elbow flying out is caused by the early humerous rotation she has always struggled with keeping the bicep up longer. It flys out because the bicep never goes through the slow down process because by the time the lat hits the side she has already turned the bicep which causes the elbow to make contact with the side at full speed and it really doesn't matter palm up or to third she does it either way. She does not do it for a while then starts it up again. I am looking at how she transitions over the top from say like 1:00 - 12-00 to see if she is doing something that that sometimes forces the early rotation I think maybe with her the cue word "bicep up" would be better then "palm up" because she can turn her bicep to third but still turn the palm up which is what she is doing