How open should the shoulders get in pitching delivery ??

Everyone has seen video of My DD and everyone has made light that the ball disappears behind her. My question is

If you get completely open with the shoulders does the ball not disappear as a result of it?

and

My DD has lax joints which means all of her joints will travel further then what normal joints would allow. So
is it a possibility I need to adjust how open her shoulders get to try to get the ball from disappearing. Reason I ask is because no matter how many times I explain it to her or show her it just seems to end up there naturally.

When I view her mechanics while pitching from the catchers view I have no sight of the ball once it goes behind her head all the way down the circle until its is released and on its way ...

Thanks

D,

Out of curiosity, what is her Beighton score?

Rather than think absolute, the shoulders need to be in position to allow the movement in the shoulder to pass overhead smoothly. That said, the humerus needs to be in a good position, too. SLIGHT elevation of the elbow (AFTER 3) - that puts the hand on top of the ball - will also slightly externally rotate the humerus before 12. This position resembles a hook (c-shape), and requires that the glove shoulder be ahead of the throwing shoulder. This is a position to work towards. It creates the Show-it position once overhead. Blaire Luna and Yukiko are great examples of this hook:

Yes, when the shoulders are completely open during a normal pitch the ball will disappear behind the pitcher. I have RightView Pro on my iPad mini and embedded within this app is numerous top-flight pitchers filmed from every angle imaginable. I took a quick look at Osterman, Abbott and Mowatt from directly behind the catcher, both O and A had the ball completely disappear while M's ball was visible almost all the way around.

Rick Pauly has some nice video of the ball path from the catcher's viewpoint; the main takeaway was that the ball should never get behind the head (think backside of head), in fact he advocates it shouldn't even go over the top of the head but stay in front of the forehead as it travels over the top. I think your daughter has her arm/ball moving beyond this centerline.

Well, I know that Boardmember advocates not taking the ball over the head, but rather prefers taking it straight over the shoulder. I know this because in a clip of my own DD (or another pitching student) he pointed that out. Having said that, with Ueno, the ball "definitely disappears behind her."

I would say the shoulders should get completely open and that the ball will disappear (or nearly disappear) as the ball goes down the back side and will not rear it's head again until roughly 7:00 as the arm internally rotates into release. Of course, this is from the catcher's perspective.

javasource said:

D,

Out of curiosity, what is her Beighton score?

Rather than think absolute, the shoulders need to be in position to allow the movement in the shoulder to pass overhead smoothly. That said, the humerus needs to be in a good position, too. SLIGHT elevation of the elbow (AFTER 3) - that puts the hand on top of the ball - will also slightly externally rotate the humerus before 12. This position resembles a hook (c-shape), and requires that the glove shoulder be ahead of the throwing shoulder. This is a position to work towards. It creates the Show-it position once overhead. Blaire Luna and Yukiko are great examples of this hook:

Click to expand...

BOY, it's amazing with Luna how her hips POP OPEN in one frame! She really gets fully opened with both her shoulders and her hips.

Ok so the importance of going behind her is more behind her back in the pitching motion ok I feel better about the explanations I got now because I know she does not cross her head going from 3 to 11 but her arm does slightly lay over from 11-9 .but it never crosses behind her back to the other side just stays straight behind her.

I recorded her from the back so this is not a problem maegan106 - YouTube

thank you

breighton score is 5 only the knees and thumbs will not over extend

in that view Catchers pov I can not see the ball once past say 11 till it comes out but I do not see it on the back side of her either which is quite weird because the ball is almost wider then her

dmaeganx2 said:

Ok so the importance of going behind her is more behind her back in the pitching motion ok I feel better about the explanations I got now because I know she does not cross her head going from 3 to 11 but her arm does slightly lay over from 11-9 .but it never crosses behind her back to the other side just stays straight behind her.

I recorded her from the back so this is not a problem maegan106 - YouTube

thank you

breighton score is 5 only the knees and thumbs will not over extend

Click to expand...

5 is very lax... taking advantage of sound biomechanics is a real wise investment (ounce of prevent/pound of cure). She's at a higher risk for shoulder issues than most I see... I'd recommend a good band routine prior to each session/throwing. Glad you're here.

Keep on working on... 'loose as goose' as BM once said. Create a starting point in EVERY progression throw... with the goal of reaching that point again.

Yea I do not let her do push ups because of it and I have her use bands for rotator cuff exercises