Speed of various pitches

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May 13, 2012
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Another thread was talking about how all FP pitchers throw at the same speed. I warmed up a pitcher the other night and it was like she was throwing her curve to hard. What I was seeing was the ball had good break but it was taking place on the back part of the plate. Was this a mechanics problem of was she over throwing the break so to speak. I was once told that Cat O.. spent a lot of time finding the best speed for her pitches to maximize the movement. Just wondering.
 
Dec 12, 2012
1,668
0
On the bucket
Another thread was talking about how all FP pitchers throw at the same speed. I warmed up a pitcher the other night and it was like she was throwing her curve to hard. What I was seeing was the ball had good break but it was taking place on the back part of the plate. Was this a mechanics problem of was she over throwing the break so to speak. I was once told that Cat O.. spent a lot of time finding the best speed for her pitches to maximize the movement. Just wondering.

The slower the pitch the more potential for "movement".
A pitcher can slow a pitch down simply by putting more hand on the ball. No change in mechanics needed.
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
Good topic...
I'll typically give my batters instructions as they're stepping into the box that includes the pitchers speed. We rank our opposing pitchers 1, 2, or 3... 1 is the fastest, 2 is average and 3 is like a change up.
However, when I'm pitch calling, If I decide to call the same pitch and location during the same at bat, my hand signals will finish with a fist to close out the pitch call and then a 1, 2, or 3 to instruct my pitcher to either give it gas or take something off of it. This is decided obviously by the batters speed and aggressiveness. The speed variances are controlled by the balls depth in the hand. Its only a mile or two per hour different between them. But sometimes it can be a world of difference to the batter. This really only applies to fastballs and peel drops. In order to reduce speed on curves and screws, it will just take more time and practice to figure out how to get more spin along with the perfect speed. Small adjustments like getting the fingers outside the ball a fraction sooner will add spin and reduce speed etc.... this is a rev fire situation!
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2012
1,668
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On the bucket
It sounds good that variances in hand position and fingers alone will produce different speed, but in reality, you must have long fingers (ie many 12-13 year olds can't do it, so it ends up being a late edition in the repertoire).

Not really true. My DD (13yo) is small and can still push the ball back in her hand and vary speed. Would it be easier if she had 12" fingers, sure but even the smallest of hands can do it effectively.

CO did not do that but worked on her spin and velocity

Again, not really true. CO has worked with my DD and that is exactly what she taught her to do. Why? Because that is exactly what CO's pitching coach (same as my DD) taught her to do.
 
Sep 30, 2013
415
0
The slower the pitch the more potential for "movement".
A pitcher can slow a pitch down simply by putting more hand on the ball. No change in mechanics needed.

It amazing that I find someone who thinks so much like I do on a SB board! You wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve argued slowing a pitch down the same way, but on BB boards, but its seldom I get anyone to believe it.

I once bet one of the local “know-it-all” coaches $100 that he couldn’t find a pitcher who could throw a baseball as hard with 3 fingers on the ball as with 2, and the fool not only took the bet and lost with his son as the pitcher, but doubled down using another kid on the HS team as the pitcher. I made enough to buy pizza for the Fr, JV, and V teams! 

Not really true. My DD (13yo) is small and can still push the ball back in her hand and vary speed. Would it be easier if she had 12" fingers, sure but even the smallest of hands can do it effectively….

Waaay back in the early 90’s, I was at a trade show, and Jim Palmer was one of the sport’s figures there who had a booth to chat and sign pictures. When I saw no one around his booth, I thought what the heck, I’ll go talk to the guy. As we shook hands, I commented about how long his fingers were, and how it must give him quite an advantage in throwing the curve.

He said it was funny how many people thought that, but it wasn’t true. As an example he noted that Mike Cuellar had exceptionally small hands and short fingers, but easily threw the best curve in the American league for almost the entire 15 years he played, and from ’69-77 he played with and against some monster pitchers.

Going forward 15 years, I had made a very good friend who had been the PC for the Dodgers from 68-80. We were chatting over a couple longnecks one afternoon and got on the subject of pitcher who could throw curves because in his over 40 years in pro baseball, he’d seen a bunch of pitchers. I asked him who had some of the best curves he’d seen in the ML, and he threw out a couple names, then it came. “Mike Cuellar”! Then he noted what was so kool about Cuellar, was that he had these tiny hands and short fingers that gave him tremendous leverage in putting spin on the ball.

The moral of that story is, while having large hands and long fingers may make it seem logical that they‘re a superior physical trait for throwing breaking balls, it’s just another one of those baseball/softball “myths”. ;)
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
We are talking changing speed on a curve, not a FB. May I repeat: Kids have trouble getting spin with the number of fingers needed for a typical curve as it is; asking them to tuck more fingers (or push the ball back!! and get spin?!!) is not going to be successful, uh I guess, if the first is not successful. A wobbly curve ball due to trying to turn knuckles, or take fingers off, winds up over the fence. Medium pitches do not really help you in FP, they are the perfect speed and on the rightie bat path to get pounced on. My advice for a slow curve is to use a horseshoe change, curve it and have it really slow. That's it.

CO: I have seen her in person, and her curve was one speed. Not talking about what kids are taught and such, what I see out there.

PS, a softball is not a baseball. Good grief Fingers do matter.


May I repeat: Several months ago a HS softball coach stated that she knew nothing about pitching and left it up to her AC's. That was a very good post.
 
Jan 23, 2014
248
0
I think I remember that post.
Do your hands keep growing after you are done growing? A lot of people I know topped out at about 13, can't imagine their hands got much bigger. And yes, even my 10 year old can take speed off of her pitches by moving it back in her hand. Typically her pinky is barely part of the fastball and she works on using her fingertips. Put the pinky back on and the ball in the palm and watch it slow down.
 
Dec 20, 2012
1,085
0
We are talking changing speed on a curve, not a FB. May I repeat: Kids have trouble getting spin with the number of fingers needed for a typical curve as it is; asking them to tuck more fingers (or push the ball back!! and get spin?!!) is not going to be successful, uh I guess, if the first is not successful. A wobbly curve ball due to trying to turn knuckles, or take fingers off, winds up over the fence. Medium pitches do not really help you in FP, they are the perfect speed and on the rightie bat path to get pounced on. My advice for a slow curve is to use a horseshoe change, curve it and have it really slow. That's it.

CO: I have seen her in person, and her curve was one speed. Not talking about what kids are taught and such, what I see out there.

PS, a softball is not a baseball. Good grief Fingers do matter.

I totally disagree! My dd threw thru the break and had less revs throwing normal curve than when she tucked 2 knuckles. Slowed it down to about 56ish mph an had much more break. And medium speed pitches don't have a place in FP?? Maybe the most ignorant statement ever made on this message board. If you have 3 or even 4 variations of speed the more options a batter has to think about you throwing. And exactly what is the perfect speed for being pounced on? if a kid tops out at 65 her mid speed would be different from a kid that tops out at 58. So which would be the mid speed that is perfect for a batter? And why would you not want a mid speed. Fastball is pulled, way ahead on the change up, expecting something with some velocity and get a pitch 5-7 mph slower than top speed and ahead of that pitch as well. That would be like saying just have 2 spots to throw to, anything else would be pounced on.
 
Oct 22, 2009
1,781
0
My DD's first PC told her she'd never have good breaking pitches because of her tiny hands.
I don't recall through her college scouting and signing, anyone ever asking to see her hands.:rolleyes:


As for the off-speed curve, all my high schoolers throw it, and very successfully.
I teach it in the hand the bit more, getting under it more with an aggressive spin and eliminating a lot of follow through.
 
Sep 30, 2013
415
0
We are talking changing speed on a curve, not a FB. May I repeat: Kids have trouble getting spin with the number of fingers needed for a typical curve as it is; asking them to tuck more fingers (or push the ball back!! and get spin?!!) is not going to be successful, uh I guess, if the first is not successful. A wobbly curve ball due to trying to turn knuckles, or take fingers off, winds up over the fence. Medium pitches do not really help you in FP, they are the perfect speed and on the rightie bat path to get pounced on. My advice for a slow curve is to use a horseshoe change, curve it and have it really slow. That's it.

CO: I have seen her in person, and her curve was one speed. Not talking about what kids are taught and such, what I see out there.

PS, a softball is not a baseball. Good grief Fingers do matter.

OiLF,

Yours is the kind of post I get in trouble over because I can’t think of a diplomatic way of replying to it, but I’m gonna jump in again.

There’s absolutely nothing you said that doesn’t mimic long held beliefs about the games played on a ball diamond. Trouble is, just because they’re long held beliefs, it doesn’t mean they’re true. I’m not saying you’re wrong about anything, but I am saying there’s a lot of people like myself who would say at best you’re exaggerating what does and does not happen.

You have to keep in mind that there are millions and millions of people who have experiences too. That means your experiences can’t be viewed as typical.

No one said fingers don’t matter! Some of us are just trying to say that not having a big hand and long fingers doesn’t mean a pitcher can’t do the same things at the same levels as those that do.
 

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