Cheat pitches

Hmmm...

FWIW, I think the pitched referred to here as ephus and Chinese change up is illegal (in ASA) based on the following.

Rule 6 Pitching regulations (fast pitch)
Sec 3 Legal Delivery
G. The release of the ball and follow through of the hand and wrist must be forward and past the straight line of the body.
Page 63 of the 2014 Participant Manual (rule book)
M. The pitcher shall not make another revolution after releasing the ball
Page 64 of the 2014 Participant Manual

Effect: Any violation of A-N is an illegal pitch

KCM said:

I was going to say the "Chinese Change-Up" and my daughter typically will use it early into a game against a team we have never played before. Kind of keeps the other team and umps on their "toes" so to say.

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Did the umpire call it an illegal pitch since I assume your DD continued the windmill pitching motion after the release?

This thread has me thinking....the first change up my DD learned was a knuckle ball. She now throws a slurve (slow curve) as her change up (she could never master a backspin change up). My question is how effective do you think a knuckle change up would be if she threw it with a slingshot motion instead of a windmill? It would be like throwing a Chinese change up, but if she does not complete the windmill it would be a legal pitch!

JAD said:

This thread has me thinking....the first change up my DD learned was a knuckle ball. She now throws a slurve (slow curve) as her change up (she could never master a backspin change up). My question is how effective do you think a knuckle change up would be if she threw it with a slingshot motion instead of a windmill? It would be like throwing a Chinese change up, but if she does not complete the windmill it would be a legal pitch!

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Speaking from experience, very effective. Throw it sparingly and late in the game.

I think the best change is one that looks identical in delivery to your fastball.

Altering the delivery so radically for the change, basically announces "here comes the change" to everyone.
Mixing sling-shot/windmill will surprise the first few batters, but after that they will know when the ball is pitched sling-shot they should just "sit on the change".

You may argue that mixing windmill/sling-shot will always keep the batters guessing, and throw off timing; which may very well be true - but so will a great change-up pitched windmill, as well.

Personally, I'd rather have my pitcher beat a team on her merits, rather than resort to "cheat pitches".
I know that my own level of respect for the opposing coach always nose-dives as soon as his/her pitcher throws a "ephus pitch" - legal or not.

I have the opposite vies Corlay. A trick pitch once in a while like a slingshot is just a way to liven up a game. Puts some fun and surprise in there. I have worked a little on a slingshot with DD not to get an advantage, just to have some fun. I hope she gets to throw it in a game once in a while.

The Emory board skin graft I have scheduled for next week to make her palm as rough as sandpaper may be going a little far though.

corlay said:

You may argue that mixing windmill/sling-shot will always keep the batters guessing, and throw off timing; which may very well be true - but so will a great change-up pitched windmill, as well.

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My DD throws a slurve from a full windmill, so the slingshot knuckle ball would just be a secondary change up. Maybe I will try it as a first pitch against some big bats to see if we can get them to chase one. Also, a lot of batters are taught to lay off a first pitch change up, so if my DD can throw if for a strike it is like starting with an 0-1 count!

JAD said:

Did the umpire call it an illegal pitch since I assume your DD continued the windmill pitching motion after the release?

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Depends if the ump was on his/her toes....sometimes they never even know what happened.