Drive Mechanics

Java,

What is your opinion on this? Does this having any validity as far as driving with power off the plate. It may be a keyword for a pitcher who is having trouble coming off the mound.

[video=youtube_share;SeDUo-LSzQs]http://youtu.be/SeDUo-LSzQs?list=UUrxXbIlVnI9gcKYbZS1Kh3w[/video]

txnick said:

Java,

What do you think about this drill? Dropping a little upright not landing on your heels and going foward.

[video=youtube_share;coddE-0bKKU]http://youtu.be/coddE-0bKKU?list=UUrxXbIlVnI9gcKYbZS1Kh3w[/video]

Click to expand...

I think it has uses, for sure. Lots and lots of studies have been written regarding drop landings and neuromuscular strategies for such. If I were to do something like this, I'd spend as much time on developing a quality landing (i.e. no valgus at the knee)... and then get them to take off. Definitely two parts... to this one.

txnick said:

Java,

What is your opinion on this? Does this having any validity as far as driving with power off the plate. It may be a keyword for a pitcher who is having trouble coming off the mound.

[video=youtube_share;SeDUo-LSzQs]http://youtu.be/SeDUo-LSzQs?list=UUrxXbIlVnI9gcKYbZS1Kh3w[/video]

Click to expand...

Not sure about this one, Nick. There was quite a bit of hub-bub about abdominal bracing vs. hollowing a while back... and I think this dude touches on that. It's a neat postural bit about the lower back... I guess.

I was a bit distracted with that tree. It's either in training... or he misdirected one of those 'bops'...

In all seriousness, this may work for some, never tried it. I've had pretty good luck with the simplicity of the Pushback drill... and that bop forward he uses... is something I get by training a powerful overlap... and I don't really need to get into all of that with a pitcher.

Java Question: Do you consider the 2-step and push-back drills something to be done in progression? Like after one is mastered, move on to the next? or both to be done in unison?

My thought is:
Start with push-back, to really encourage the feeling of a powerful drive, and to work on personal adjustments to timing.
Then work on 2-step, as the steps with feet are less exaggerated. Sort of half-way to a "legal" pitch.
Then, if the drive mechanics from push-back are retained in the 2-step and timing looks good, start working on a legal pitch, working to retain the drive and timing the athlete has learned and developed utilizing these to drills.

make sense?

corlay said:

Java Question: Do you consider the 2-step and push-back drills something to be done in progression? Like after one is mastered, move on to the next? or both to be done in unison?

My thought is:
Start with push-back, to really encourage the feeling of a powerful drive, and to work on personal adjustments to timing.
Then work on 2-step, as the steps with feet are less exaggerated. Sort of half-way to a "legal" pitch.
Then, if the drive mechanics from push-back are retained in the 2-step and timing looks good, start working on a legal pitch, working to retain the drive and timing the athlete has learned and developed utilizing these to drills.

make sense?

Click to expand...

Yep. Sounds good. Both drills are similar, in that they should be training 100% IMMEDIATE weight transfer and pawing (striking) the plate.

I might add that if she gets the Pushbacks down... with great overlap... I'd rather see them do the 2-step while trying to maintain the same feel. This will (should) take out pauses in the whole 2-step motion.... meaning you go back to go forward... not back, pause, forward.

If you sense less urgency/drive, do a couple Pushbacks and try again.

For your DD... she'll also want to train the stride knee when doing the 2-step... after she's doing it without the backstep... just maximize her vertical foot spacing.

Out in Left Field said:

Look at college pitchers and see how many rock on the back foot (some but not the majority). Many use a simple push on the front foot to stay legal. If you want to go back and forth between legal and not legal, it is tough on the pitchers. I had two in HS recently with the big gym steps, one a la JF, which thankfully this version isn't, but they had a hard time getting legal with the umps.The ump specifically told me he does not understand the toe lifting, or the air under the front foot, but he recommends kids stop it and keep that foot down or he will call it. The side ump will call the back foot off for sure. Since I see these umps and they affect whether we win, I go with their advice plus my PC.

All of this adds complication that I often see from non-pitcher instructors. You can have your opinion, but you need to be open to other versions that are simpler and get you there without using a motion that is so close to real illegal pitch they actually can't stop pitching that way.

See how many men pitch this way. And there is no allowance for non-backswing pitchers.

Click to expand...

OILF,

I've worked with pitchers as a Pitching Coach for over a decade. I've helped many go on to the next level, and will help many, many more. I've coached, played, pitched, and been part of this game and will continue to be for many years.

Oh... Yes, I am a male. Get over it.

I'm not going to keep having this battle with you. You've never pitched or been a PC... and I really doubt you're even a coach - as I know of few organizations/schools that would put up with your incessant negativity... and if they do - it's probably because they don't have a better option. Called you out on that before... and you always crawl away.

The irony of telling me to have an "open mind" kills me... and is absolutely hypocritical. I am a student and participant in this game, not a Monday morning quarterback. I've learned as much - if not more - from the students and parents I've worked with over the years - as they have from me. Not to mention the unbelievably awesome people on this board....

I've actually watched how you work on here. You send PM's to new users under an alias - speaking of how BoardMember, Rick P, and myself are the worst things imaginable. You post 2-3 times daily... BUT SOMEHOW... are still under 400 posts! Why? Because you try and get someone worked up... and then delete your own posts. How weird is that?

The other thing that absolutely blows my mind... is that you incessantly re-direct posters away from DFP. What is your problem, seriously?

Illegal pitching... blah, blah, blah... heard your story a thousand times before. You've actually recommended drills that are completely illegal motions in the last month- but because it's a female presenter that doesn't participate on DFP... it's ok, right?

And this new found vendetta regarding backswing being required is absurd. I don't require them... and if you've ever performed a real pitch, you'd know that practicing with one in drill is a simple adjustment, if at all.

Sadly, the human in me wishes you the best. But please.... go away, you're not fooling anyone.

Out in Left Field said:

Look at college pitchers and see how many rock on the back foot (some but not the majority). Many use a simple push on the front foot to stay legal. If you want to go back and forth between legal and not legal, it is tough on the pitchers. I had two in HS recently with the big gym steps, one a la JF, which thankfully this version isn't, but they had a hard time getting legal with the umps.The ump specifically told me he does not understand the toe lifting, or the air under the front foot, but he recommends kids stop it and keep that foot down or he will call it. The side ump will call the back foot off for sure. Since I see these umps and they affect whether we win, I go with their advice plus my PC.

All of this adds complication that I often see from non-pitcher instructors. You can have your opinion, but you need to be open to other versions that are simpler and get you there without using a motion that is so close to real illegal pitch they actually can't stop pitching that way.

See how many men pitch this way. And there is no allowance for non-backswing pitchers.

Click to expand...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7Jvk82lWj9s/UZBnR3hS0vI/AAAAAAAABBc/T-15Ae9hewg/s1600/Jeff+That's+one+big+pile+of+shirt.gif

In typical fashion....big poopies on a great thread...

Why don't you start your own drive mechanics thread to show Java how it really should be done? You could get the umps and your PC to help out for sure...

<sigh>

Chris - you sort of indirectly gave me an idea:

Wouldn't it be cool to have two versions of these "sticky" threads?
one just the pure, original postings by the Author,
and another option to "view with commentary", which would display all the posts, chronologically, as they do now?
not sure if that is possible, but would sure save time when going back to reference something specific in these threads....

Sad that such an insightful thread can be tainted by crap.