Pitching speeds at LL World Series.....

I lost faith in LL in my area and will not support it. The teams are put together with some players that did not play in the league. We were surprised when our dd was asked cause she did not even play in league. We declined the invite. It is upsetting listening to the announcers talk of sportsmanship and integrity when very little exists in little league. In baseball there is usually a team that is put together at the beginning of the season with the sole purpose of making a run at all stars. That concept disenfranchises every other kid that signed up with a dream of making all stars. It may not be like that every where but I am pretty sure my experience is not an isolated one.

joemcq51 said:

Biscuit- I get what you are saying. I would still say it is a community team. The players must live within the boundries. The pitchers have to follow the rest rules. The fact that they are playing TB year round means that they understand they have to play better teams to get better. Little league is a little behind the times on the way the schedule their tournaments. The fact it takes over a week to play a 4 team tournament is a little sad. What Little League does is eliminate the recruiting and team hopping that happens so much in TB. But like anything, it has it's good and bad points. No recruiting and team hopping is a poor trade off for some of the over the top politics that can take place. I enjoyed the experience with my DD. She also plays TB and understands how to compete at higher levels. Not all LL players do.

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No recruiting... Must live within the boundaries.... No stacking teams... Mo magic district or league changes... No LL travel ball affiliation (yes that is in the rule book).... Getting around this is so easy it is almost sad.

This all happens. Maybe not ALL the teams do all the things above you see in LLWS but I am pretty sure if you wanted to look you will find they all have done some of them. Certainly it has been done in all the teams I know players on who 'wanted to make a run'. Some of these are done by LL themselves (our LL league and district is 3x the size that is allowed in LL but apparently they are OK with this).

The only thing that you have right is the pitchers rest rule (and I have seen a team try to skirt that who had identical twins although that was baseball).

I am fairly certain I can put together a team that would do very well in LLWS. But I wouldn't.

A little more concise message from me would be:

* Love LL as long as it stays local and is balanced (This generates the TB players and offers those who just want to play a venue)
* Avoid the All-stars as this gets into the not-so-pretty area of LL.

So it's NOT an elitism thought that puts LL in this evolutionary slot - it's just conclusions through experience. I love watching equally matched local LL teams almost as much as I love watching equally matched PGF championship games. But don't mix the two,....somebody is gonna get hurt.....

TB is what it is. LL is portrays themselves as a league of wholesome values and is until all stars.

Our Little League has been a great experience both through seasonal play and All Stars. We draft as recommended. All of the players meet boundary and playing time requirements. During the draft we discuss the benefit of spreading the pitching so teams are more balanced and all of the players can face good pitching. Skilled travel players play with school friends and we try to create magic moments for those just playing for fun. We love All-Stars as well and have many good experiences. Personally big advocate.

JJsqueeze said:

I don't see what you mean by haters? this is a thread about the pitching speeds and how the guns look fishy. I think we all understand the difference between all stars and TB. It seems a little weird that given the quality of overall play that some of the speeds that were shown are faster than what was seen at the PGF finals with 14u girls that were up to two years older and a general quality of play that was much better. I enjoyed watching it but those guns were off.

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Sorry.. I was a little off topic... By "Hate" I meant that I see a lot condescending talk about LL and rec ball on here.... The their allstar games are televised and much more publicized so I think that burns a lot of strictly TB parents up.

I am sure it has been said in this thread multiple times but it all boils down to which LL town or area has enough TB girls that buy into playing their regular season LL games to qualify for Allstars... Are they the best out there?? Doubt it... but again they are playing with their friends and playing for their town.

My little town of 10,000, the boys won the state this year in LL.... There were 2 portable electronic road signs put up congratulating them... There was a party at the field for them before they headed off to regionals, there were multiple news paper clippings in the local paper. A local bus company donated 2 buses to take residents to the final state game for free....Name another organization playoff system with that kind of recognition?

packhand said:

The their allstar games are televised and much more publicized so I think that burns a lot of strictly TB parents up.

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I don't think anybody is gonna lie and say they wouldn't want to be on tv - we Americans grew up longing for a moment on tv regardless of the topic.

Being totally honest what burns me up the most is that many many tv watchers in this country get calibrated by what they see on tv. My parents watch LL SB on tv every now and then and before they came and saw our TB team they thought plentitudes of unskilled errors, dinosaur-throwing mechanics, and casting bats is the "norm" for girls top softball.

Thank goodness I have family & friends seeing the college world series a time or two now to know that there must be something inbetween LL & D1 college ball on tv.

The LL tv thing is a bit like watching presidential debates. It's the tradition that keeps ya coming back more than the quality of the play..... ;-)

packhand said:

it all boils down to which LL town

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Absolutely. I bet allot of us wished they were from a town like yours that even acknowledges girls SB.

RubberBiscuit said:

I don't think anybody is gonna lie and say they wouldn't want to be on tv - we Americans grew up longing for a moment on tv regardless of the topic.

Being totally honest what burns me up the most is that many many tv watchers in this country get calibrated by what they see on tv. My parents watch LL SB on tv every now and then and before they came and saw our TB team they thought plentitudes of unskilled errors, dinosaur-throwing mechanics, and casting bats is the "norm" for girls top softball.

Thank goodness I have family & friends seeing the college world series a time or two now to know that there must be something inbetween LL & D1 college ball on tv.

The LL tv thing is a bit like watching presidential debates. It's the tradition that keeps ya coming back more than the quality of the play..... ;-)



Absolutely. I bet allot of us wished they were from a town like yours that even acknowledges girls SB.

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i wont argue with you at all on the calibur of competition. But ill tell you i watched the 16U PGF game and one of the centerfielders missed an easy flyball and allowed 1 of the 2 runs scored. I think in all there were 4 errors in that game. And those were (agureably) the best 2 16U teams in the world. Errors happen. And that game was delayed a week and played after most americans were in bed lol. Those girls in those Little League games played on LIVE TV when they knew that about anyone that knew who they were would be watching them on TV. When our team played in the LL Championship game our town and pretty much the boarding towns shut down. ANd everyone that knew these girls numbers were texting them about how they would be watching. We didnt play our best game by any means!!! LOL. But i still dont think there was 4 errors in our game. I guess my point is thats alot of pressure on a 12 year old girl. Again not sayng the calibur of play is the same im just saying take that Arizona team that just won and put them in the PGF tourney and i bet they win a game or 2. I would promise they wouldnt be the worst team there like some folks on this site would try to get you to believe. And keep in mind these little league teams are girls from a small area not picking up kids from all over like these PGF teams do.

looked up two random players from the AZ LL champ team. Both are listed as playing for different TB teams in the Tuscon area (pop 500,000). Looks like our folksy apple pie vision of this team is a little much. This is a team of TB players assembled from a pretty large metro area....this is not a spunky group of little league all stars from a single community who overcame adversity and an alcoholic coach to go on to win the world series. It is a group of experienced TB players from generally the same area. Not discounting the accomplishment, not discounting their skill- heck I thought they looked better than the Suncats in the 12U PGF finals....just saying that there is a myth about the LL teams that does not quite line up with reality. I have no doubt that the AZ LL team would win some games in the PGF.

JJsqueeze said:

looked up two random players from the AZ LL champ team. Both are listed as playing for different TB teams in the Tuscon area (pop 500,000). Looks like our folksy apple pie vision of this team is a little much. This is a team of TB players assembled from a pretty large metro area....this is not a spunky group of little league all stars from a single community who overcame adversity and an alcoholic coach to go on to win the world series. It is a group of experienced TB players from generally the same area. Not discounting the accomplishment, not discounting their skill- heck I thought they looked better than the Suncats in the 12U PGF finals....just saying that there is a myth about the LL teams that does not quite line up with reality. I have no doubt that the AZ LL team would win some games in the PGF.

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In some areas of the country the parks require players on their TB teams to also play in their rec leagues. This can lead to some pretty "stacked" LL World Series teams. In my area, once a girl starts playing TB they rarely go back to rec ball, so the quality of the rec programs drops dramatically after 10U.