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Thread: Different Pitching rules...

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    Checking out the clubhouse Scotty349's Avatar
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    Default Different Pitching rules...

    I coach junior girls in Australia and also play senior men softball. I have a couple under 15 aged pitchers that I have taught to pitch and they both have a crow hop action. Here in Australia we have adopted the new ISF pitching laws which means their actions are legal. Neither of them have ever been warned or called for illegal pitching except for not pausing long enough before starting their pitch which has no relation to their footwork. I originally taught the old jump and drag action however one of my girls played under 12 mixed and picked the crow hop action up from the boys in the team. Here in Australia the boys and men elite pitchers were crow hopping but were keeping their feet to close to the ground for the line umpires to call them. This saw many crow hop pitchers develop and I feel the laws were changed by ISF more as a case of the horse had already been allowed to bolt so they decided to no longer penalise the male pitchers for developing actions and becoming elite before ever getting called for illegal pitches. As a senior men's player I have experienced first hand that now if you don't crow hop in junior boys or men's softball you are a dead duck. The game has been pretty much revolutionised in male softball by the crow hop pitching action. I find the main advantage is the arm action isn't telegraphed by the pitcher when they crow hop as their feet start the pitch and not their arm like the old jump and drag action and this as a hitter see's the ball upon you quite quickly. Male batters have adjusted to this and elite crow hop pitchers do get hit. Now that they have allowed females to crow hop pitch in ISF rules its only logical to expect that it will change the game soon for females as well. The main issue my girls have is that there is many tradionalists that still haven't accepted that the rules have changed and the game has changed, anyone in male softball now just accepts it as part of the game. I have been researching and have noticed that ASA and many leagues/ comps in USA still haven't adopted ISF rules, why is this the case? I'm hoping if my pitchers become competent enough in their softball that maybe scholarship to USA college softball might be a option for them but there is all these different rules, maybe when USA get knocked off by crow hoping pitching from other countries at internationals they will change their thinking on this? like anything that is competition once someone gets a advantage everyone will then come to the party I guess? Thoughts anyone?

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    Certified softball maniac Sparky Guy's Avatar
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    I truly tried to read this and could not. Paragraphs please.

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    Checking out the clubhouse Scotty349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky Guy View Post
    I truly tried to read this and could not. Paragraphs please.
    Sorry, will try again...

    The main thing im confused about is why are not the female softball leagues at the different levels in USA not adopting the new pitching laws by ISF which allow the crow hopping style pitching? Other countries are now teaching their pitchers this and its just strange that not everyone is following the rule changes?

    I would think that the ultimate goal of any junior player is to one day play at international level yet it would seem the female pitchers in USA will be at a disadvantage by pitching out dated techniques?

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    Certified softball maniac PEPPERS's Avatar
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    IMO crow hopping/leaping brings the pitcher that much closer to the hitter giving her less time to protect herself where a line drive is hit back to her. DD pitching coach has had pitchers come to him that hopped/leaped and they wanted him to correct the problem.

    After correcting the problem most pitchers see a slight increase in speed on the radar. So why does hopping/leaping seem faster, because the pitcher is closer to the batter and the batter has less time to react to the pitch.
    Last edited by PEPPERS; 06-18-2013 at 08:19 AM.

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    Checking out the clubhouse Scotty349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEPPERS View Post
    IMO crow hopping/leaping brings the pitcher that much closer to the hitter giving her less time to protect herself where a line drive is hit back to her. DD pitching coach has had pitchers come to him that hopped/leaped and they wanted him to correct the problem.

    After correcting the problem most pitchers see a slight increase in speed on the radar. So why does hopping/leaping seem faster, because the pitcher is closer to the batter and the batter has less time to react to the pitch.
    Yeah that is a good point with the pitcher been closer to the batter however I have found that the pitcher is better balanced to field of their pitching as they have both feet planted earlier. I also have found that having the back foot planted gives a advantage by allowing a stronger push through with the back hip as the arm whips through and it takes a lot of stress of the pitchers shoulder. My first pitcher who started crow hopping used to pitch the old jump and drag action but when she converted it was such a better balanced pitch and her speed and accuracy was significantly better.

    I used to be anti crow hop with teaching the girls to pitch but she won me over and now I have a few more that have do the hop in their action. I think that its defiantly a tougher action to master and there is more things that need to line up technique wise for a pitcher to use the crow hop but if they can be dedicated enough to learn sound technique around it then it is the better action to go with?

    Very interested in others opinions on this?

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    Checking out the clubhouse Scotty349's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEPPERS View Post
    IMO crow hopping/leaping brings the pitcher that much closer to the hitter giving her less time to protect herself where a line drive is hit back to her. DD pitching coach has had pitchers come to him that hopped/leaped and they wanted him to correct the problem.

    After correcting the problem most pitchers see a slight increase in speed on the radar. So why does hopping/leaping seem faster, because the pitcher is closer to the batter and the batter has less time to react to the pitch.
    Yeah that is a good point with the pitcher been closer to the batter however I have found that the pitcher is better balanced to field of their pitching as they have both feet planted earlier. I also have found that having the back foot planted gives a advantage by allowing a stronger push through with the back hip as the arm whips through and it takes a lot of stress of the pitchers shoulder. My first pitcher who started crow hopping used to pitch the old jump and drag action but when she converted it was such a better balanced pitch and her speed and accuracy was significantly better.

    I used to be anti crow hop with teaching the girls to pitch but she won me over and now I have a few more that have do the hop in their action. I think that its defiantly a tougher action to master and there is more things that need to line up technique wise for a pitcher to use the crow hop but if they can be dedicated enough to learn sound technique around it then it is the better action to go with?

    Very interested in others opinions on this?

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    Checking out the clubhouse Scotty349's Avatar
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    Well one thing I have done is when I teach the hop I use the old action in their warm up to it, so once their arm is warm and they need to get their hips going in their warm up I get them doing jump and drag to isolate the hip movement and then when they feel good and in time then I get them hopping before they start a game of training session.

    I have converted my own pitching action to crow hopping as well in fast pitch mens and I find my curve ball is better as I can bring me hips earlier and so I push my arm around me hip and the rise ball is much easier to throw as you can sink you back foot easier and get down under the ball.

    I think the real issue is that its very hard to convert from the old style to hopping but easier to change things the other way and I know many coaches have failed to convert great junior pitchers who leant the old action and now they have stuffed them up and this has seen people be wary of the crow hop action. Its a tougher action to learn and if you don't get everything to time right it wont work.

    My juniors that have learned the hop action from the get go have really nailed it better than those that have tried to convert it. The main issue with converting is that your arm needs to drive through later due to the hop making your footwork take longer if that makes sense?

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    Checking out the clubhouse Scotty349's Avatar
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    Well one thing I have done is when I teach the hop I use the old action in their warm up to it, so once their arm is warm and they need to get their hips going in their warm up I get them doing jump and drag to isolate the hip movement and then when they feel good and in time then I get them hopping before they start a game of training session.

    I have converted my own pitching action to crow hopping as well in fast pitch mens and I find my curve ball is better as I can bring me hips earlier and so I push my arm around me hip and the rise ball is much easier to throw as you can sink you back foot easier and get down under the ball.

    I think the real issue is that its very hard to convert from the old style to hopping but easier to change things the other way and I know many coaches have failed to convert great junior pitchers who leant the old action and now they have stuffed them up and this has seen people be wary of the crow hop action. Its a tougher action to learn and if you don't get everything to time right it wont work.

    My juniors that have learned the hop action from the get go have really nailed it better than those that have tried to convert it. The main issue with converting is that your arm needs to drive through later due to the hop making your footwork take longer if that makes sense?

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    Certified softball maniac knightsb's Avatar
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    Not sure if I have the correct rule set, but I Googled "ISF Rule Book 2013" which took me to this link:

    http://www.isfsoftball.org/english/r...s/rulebook.pdf


    Rule 1, Section 20:
    CROW HOP. (FP ONLY)
    A Crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who does not push off from the pitcher's plate to deliver the ball. THIS IS AN ILLEGAL ACT if the pitcher steps off the pitcher’s plate , thereby establishing a second impetus (or starting point) and then pushes off from the new starting point and completes the delivery. NOTE: The pitcher may leap, from the pitcher’s plate , land and , with a continuous motion , deliver the ball to the plate. The pivot foot may push off and/or follow through with this continuous action and this is NOT considered a crow hop.


    Personally, I can live with a leap. I cannot stand a replant....

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    Super Moderator Amy in AZ.'s Avatar
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    It has been my experience that the replant really jars a young person's lower back - every pitch. In a grown man, that doesn't occur (as much), but some of the men are still experiencing back pain. Pitching should not hurt. It should be a rhythmic and easy flow, not herky, jerky.
    MTR - A foul ball is a foul ball. Nothing else, just a foul ball.

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    PEPPERS (06-18-2013)

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