DD Landing at a 45° angle but still need some help......

Bullet spin as viewed by the pitcher..........I would consider this spin as perpendicular (90 degrees) to the intended target line........With a parallel axis.......



This spin below is spin one would expect when learning to whip the ball using an I/R delivery.........This spin would ensure the student is not "rolling over" or tumbling the ball.........But is releasing the ball "mid-snap" through the acceleration phase vs. to early or to late.........Spinning slightly toward the catchers inside knee while traveling straight down the target line......



This would be considered an almost parallel spin to the target line.........With a perpendicular axis......

Out in Left Field said:

I guess I am just plain dumb because you lost me KenB, so I'll admit it; don't get the sarcasm flamethrower. You got four movement pitches on two different planes...how can they all be perpendicular to the direction of travel?

To me bullet spin is perpendicular to the pitch's path.

And I am with Hillhouse where it seems you find 12/6 so you have a basis for all the other planes and spins. I think these odd axis spins makes it more hard work now and later. I can't imagine doing that for overhand....

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OutInLeftField. I think your missing the fact that Ken is talking about the "Axis", not the direction of the spin itself. Think in terms of a car, the tire is obviously spinning in the direction of the path of the car. the Axle, being the "Axis", is perpendicular to the path of the wheel.

Still trying to figure out how, in one pitch, the elbow seems to plant and good IR is achieved then in another pitch the elbow doesnt plant and IR happens after the ball is released. The mechanics are almost exactly the same in both pitches. My question is......can timing of the landing with the plant foot in relationship to where the arm is within the circle contribute to good IR and bad? The two .gif files hopefully will show what I am talking about.......

Boomers2012 said:

Still trying to figure out how, in one pitch, the elbow seems to plant and good IR is achieved then in another pitch the elbow doesnt plant and IR happens after the ball is released. The mechanics are almost exactly the same in both pitches. My question is......can timing of the landing with the plant foot in relationship to where the arm is within the circle contribute to good IR and bad? The two .gif files hopefully will show what I am talking about.......

Click to expand...

Somehow on this site members started the notion that IR only happens after release which is incorrect. The whole shoulder, upper arm, lower arm, and wrist/hand are Internally Rotating from 12 oclock into and through release. Both gifs show good IR, and better than most girls her age. I like the palm (or at least partial palm) to the sky at 9 oclock which puts the open arm in the best position for good arm whip into the release. I would have your DD focus on getting the elbow planted more at the hip which acts as a pendulum for the forearm to rotate around what I call the focal point. She should be whipping the arm around this point and keeping the arm low and left around her body after release. Right now, she tends to bring her arm up too high after release which pulls her elbow away from her hip upstream of release if that makes sense. What happens after release is only a by product of the good mechanics happening upstream. Nice work, she is coming around nicely.

One of the drills I do with my DD is have her set up her body to me at a 45 degree angle and only perform the arm circle, focusing only on generating good arm whip and tight 12-6 spin on the ball. This way she can concentrate on proper arm whip mechanics in a more isolated drill. We do this from about 25 feet away, where accuracy is not the main concern but excellent arm whip is the goal. Make sure the shoulder and arm are pulling (as opposed to pushing) the ball down the circle, the elbow is close to the hip as possible at release, and she finishes the rotation across her body, naturally.

Thank you Rocketech1. I appreciate the input!!

My daughter threw with a straight arm, taught that way from day one. It was not until recently we actually worked on "I/R". But looking at slomo shots she actually had some whip before, even though it was not intentional. When we first started working on getting more whip our first focus was from about the 9-10 o'clock position down. We overexagerrated the elbow bend at first knowing she would straighten her arm out of habit. After she started geting a better feel for the whip and staying relaxed(which was really a change for her) we moved to 12 o'clock and did the same thing. Focusing on relaxing and leading with the elbow. Then we moved to full circles, the motion was pretty slow until 10-11 o'clock and the arm would speed up by pulling the elbow down. Then after a few days pitches were looking pretty good. As far as getting the spin to 12-6, the best I can desribe is driving your palm into the ground at the snap point. She won't actually drive toward the ground but that was just the best way to explain to my dd to get her to understand.(you can say the same thing a hundred different ways and one just makes sense). But your daughter looks really good! Take it piece by piece and she'll get it put it all together. If you guys ever make down to OKC area to play let me know. Good luck!!

Boomers2012 said:

Still trying to figure out how, in one pitch, the elbow seems to plant and good IR is achieved then in another pitch the elbow doesnt plant and IR happens after the ball is released.

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This is from the VERY FIRST POST in the I/R In The Classroom thread...........

In order to train the upper arm to stabilize, and transfer energy, we need to limit it's ability to do anything but turn away then face forward by responding to the commands of the forearm as it REMAINS in the stable vertical position close to the body.

The quickest way I've found to accomplish this is by using what I call the "lock it in" drill. A drill that keeps the elbow at the side, thereby keeping the upper arm stabilized and vertical and transferring energy to the forearm........

The student must throw the ball using External Rotation then Internal Rotation/Pronation of the forearm WITHOUT moving the upper arm (elbow) back/away, OR forward past the body until release causes follow through.........It can turn back but it cannot MOVE back.........

Click to expand...

Skipping this step until it's INGRAINED, and moving on BEFORE this move is perfected is one of the biggest problems with learning to whip using I/R...........

I'd suggest 15 minutes a session spent on training this move, before spending 15 minutes of other progressive drill work...........

IOW.........Don't throw full pitches until she can throw 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 circles correctly EVERYTIME............

BoardMember - What distance from the catcher do you recommend for each drill for a 13 year-old pitcher that will pitch from 43 feet?

For example:
- Lock it in drill: 8 feet
- 9 o'clock drill: 25 feet
- Magician: 10 feet
- Liberty: 30 feet
- 12 o'clock: 35 feet
- Relaxed full circle: 43 feet

Thank you.

All of those distances seem reasonable. It really depends on the proficiency of the pitcher. There is no one distance that is absolute. IE if the pitcher can't throw 8ft locking it in then move up of course, or back a little for the opposite.

Regarding the 12:00 drill, these is no reason that you can't throw it from 43ft, and actually, it will cause the pitcher to be a little more ballistic with the drill to reach the catcher.