I/R pitching DVDs

Besides Hillhouse dvd's, does anyone know of a video that is specificity centered around internal rotation and how to explain it to a grouchy teenaged girl who has pitched hello elbow for four years....
This is way too frustrating for the both of us... lets get boardmember to produce a video. His threads in the I/R classroom forum are awesome, but Im a visual learner...

I think Rich Balswick is working on a pitching video? I'm hoping it will cover whip.

I googled rich balswick... there is a video but has not been released yet...its called the whip

Looking forward to it!

coach james said:

Besides Hillhouse dvd's, does anyone know of a video that is specificity centered around internal rotation and how to explain it to a grouchy teenaged girl who has pitched hello elbow for four years....
This is way too frustrating for the both of us... lets get boardmember to produce a video. His threads in the I/R classroom forum are awesome, but Im a visual learner...

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I'm also a visual learner..... hope there's a DVD about IR.....

Rick and Sarah Pauly have some good dvd's.

coach james said:

Besides Hillhouse dvd's, does anyone know of a video that is specificity centered around internal rotation and how to explain it to a grouchy teenaged girl who has pitched hello elbow for four years....
This is way too frustrating for the both of us... lets get boardmember to produce a video. His threads in the I/R classroom forum are awesome, but Im a visual learner...

Click to expand...

I don't think it gets any more visual than the IR in the classroom thread. Take it from someone that used those as the core of the training drills with a new pitcher. DD and I used those videos for weeks, every time she would practice. We still revisit them. The concept of how to throw the softball in that manner is pretty simple...IMO. You could do it youself today if you tried. The problem is learning how to control it. It's faster than HE, and there's more moving parts that all need to be in sync. If this stubborn girl has been "bowling" the ball for 4 years, and she's good at it.. it's going to be REALLY difficult for her to accept the fact that she's going to take 75 steps backwards overnight, and only recover 1 at a time. I'd be pretty flippin grouchy myself it were me. That's a HUGE commitment from a kid that spent 4 years mastering what she knows...only to find out that there is a huge flaw in it...and unfortunately, it's the most important part. It's a change in the mechanics that occur a milisecond before the ball leaves her hand.

Maybe someone else has actual experience, but I would guess that making the change could take a HE pitcher that was somewhat successful and render her basically useless for an extended period of time. It's hard enough to learn if you don't know anything at all. I can only imagine it's 5 times as hard if you're constantly fighting muscle memory of how you used to do it.

I have never really commented on the whole "I/R" thing, and I never want to put words into Boardmember's mouth. So take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt because I did not ready ANY of the threads relating to the subject.

From what I gather, IR is a natural motion that occurs without trying. You have to be taught NOT to do it with things like "hello elbow" and other methods which leave me scratching my head. If you told a young pitcher to throw the ball as hard as she can, without giving further instruction, she'd probably do the movements the way her body is designed to move... call it IR, call it whatever you want. But it would happen naturally. Doug Gillis' first video, made a long time ago, talked about this very movement which is now titled "IR".

I see new pitchers every weekend at the locations I visit (and new students who get in to my weekly lessons). Many of them have fathers who read this board and the kids know the "IR" phrase. These kids try to force this movement and, in many cases, end up turning the ball over at the release (creating a side-spin) instead of whipping through the release. I ask why they are turning the hand over and have been told they are "working on IR". <sigh>

So be careful about "teaching" this movement. instead, just stay away from the stuff you KNOW to be wrong (hello elbow). The rest should follow naturally.

Bill

Thanks, Bill
Her first pc taught her to have a locked elbow and her wrist cocked back at release ... we have had an uphill climb trying to keep her from closing too soon and pitching around her hip... she is going on her forth year and practices at least 3 times a week. Shes got decent movement on her drop ball and a turn over change that will cut away from a righty nicely. But her fb is only getting clocked at 50-52mph. As a hs freshman this aint gonna cut it. Im looking for suggestions to get her speed up or get more spin on the drop, and if were lucky, a riseball thats more than just a high fb...

Hillhouse said:

I have never really commented on the whole "I/R" thing, and I never want to put words into Boardmember's mouth.

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Nor would I want you to Bill.........So thx for that........

From what I gather, IR is a natural motion that occurs without trying. You have to be taught NOT to do it with things like "hello elbow" and other methods which leave me scratching my head. If you told a young pitcher to throw the ball as hard as she can, without giving further instruction, she'd probably do the movements the way her body is designed to move... call it IR, call it whatever you want. But it would happen naturally.

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True for some........Not at all true for others Bill..........Case in point......

A friend stopped by my office one morning last summer with his 9 year old DD. Said she wanted to learn to pitch, and he wanted me to take a look at, and gauge her "natural" talent for pitching.

Never had a lesson. Plays SS on her local rec league team. Really good arm for a 9 year old. Soccer star at her age. IOW........one hell of an athlete for her age..........She was "watching" the older girls, and decided pitching was for her.....

I took her out back and asked her to throw the ball hard UNDERHAND like the "big girls do".......I gave her several tries, and this was the general result of all her attempts at "mimicking" what her mind saw the older girls do......

Natural I/R because she's never been taught not to?.........Not a chance.........This was her "natural" response to "throwing the ball underhand"........And I've seen plenty just like her........



So no......In my 30 years of instruction, I'd venture to say 25% are "naturals".........Another 50% have the potential to be good.......And the last 25% are going to struggle to get out of their own way.......And I won't take their money.......

Doug Gillis' first video, made a long time ago, talked about this very movement which is now titled "IR".

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I've never seen or read any of Dougs work...........The fact is that "the movement" was always I/R........I just took the time to explain it for what it is, and how/why it works.........And I know you're not Poo-Pooing that here........

I see new pitchers every weekend at the locations I visit (and new students who get in to my weekly lessons). Many of them have fathers who read this board and the kids know the "IR" phrase. These kids try to force this movement and, in many cases, end up turning the ball over at the release (creating a side-spin) instead of whipping through the release.

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Something I've warned against several times here when we teach kids "WHAT" that "magic motion" is that the best use.......It's a slippery slope to educate people Bill, without in person instruction. But I'd say the same thing about learning from "DVD" authors as well........The saying goes........"Good information in the wrong hands can be dangerous"......

I ask why they are turning the hand over and have been told they are "working on IR". <sigh>

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And for good reason Bill.........This is you is it not? It's the "Hanson Principle" at work.........



Are we teaching what we "say you should do"?.........Or what we "actually do".........Example......Where is our ball facing at the top?.........Third base?........



The fact is........The hand turning over is a "Natural Move" as part of the Kinematic chain Bill.......UNLESS you are manipulating it NOT TO for the purposes throwing a certain pitch, or have NOT been taught to "let it loose" so to speak........Learning the basic fundamentals of good I/R bio-mechanics for the purposes of learning to propel a softball at the highest velocity is training "core movements" of the highest level pitchers in the game........INCLUDING yourself......

So be careful about "teaching" this movement. instead, just stay away from the stuff you KNOW to be wrong (hello elbow). The rest should follow naturally.

Bill

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It "should" is a fantasy for many young AND old pitchers.........Why not teach them what that magic move is IF they need to learn it?........

I have the utmost respect everything you stand for Bill. Including your stance on I/R........It may just be possible that at your level of instruction, you don't see anyone but "naturals" knocking at your door for lessons..........IOW......The top 25%......I've had my share of that pie also........

Had I taken the road of producing DVD's and marketing myself like you did at a much younger age........I may have been in your shoes........But that wasn't my calling I guess.........I'm just a devoted Husband/Dad to 3 DD's.......And a 30 year veteran PC who never though about making a career out of the "other thing" I love to do........

Best regards.........And keep up the good work........You are doing a wonderful job "giving back"........

Here's one last thing on teaching, or more over, LEARNING to teach I/R.........Of those middle 50%'rs......The one's who almost/kind of get it.......From the H/E pitcher, to those with some incomplete I/R in the motion..........Being able to understand and teach the complete mechanics of I/R might save 1/2 of that crowd from "giving up" on themselves, or more over, their parents giving up on their kids dreams because they just weren't "getting it" and didn't want to waste any more time and/or money........

It can be a total transformation for some.......And just an "Ah Ha" moment for others, that furthers enhances their own ability........And when the eyes light up like you've never seen them lit before........You know you done good.......The best line I've heard from a parent who was all but done spending was: "Holy Crap Honey!......Where did that come from?!"

All my best..........Sorry for the long response.........