I/R vs. chicken wing

**Stonecrabs02** · 08-15-2012, 09:54 AM

My daughter is a 10 year old pitcher. From what I've seen on the videos of I/R, this is exactly how she use to pitch. However we switched pitching coaches and new coach tells her that her arms coming up and it's a chicken wing. Also stating that this is bad for her shoulder. I know coach has the best interest for her but I'm just confused about what is what. When she throws a fastball he wants her to have her palm facing her face when finishing kind of like making a muscle at the finish. Her finish used to look a lot like the videos of I/R.
Please help me understand.

**nanotech14** · 08-15-2012, 10:02 AM

Run dont walk!!! It sounds like this PC is teaching the hello elbow. Go to the pitching forum and find the IR threads. Or you tube Bill Hillhouse, he has a way of explaining the pitching motion and mech. that are proper.Let me tell you about what Bill says, in so many sports you finish across your body. Like throwing a ball overhand, you dont finish with your arm down by the same side of your throwing arm do you, no, it comes across your body. Throwing underhand or windmill pitching is like overhand throwing except it is underhand. Bill says something like that but, he has a better way of putting it. IMO this just my two cents worth, if you were to give a ball say to a 5 year old and said spin your arm around and then throw the ball underhand they would have a IR look, not perfect but closer to IR. Find a new pitching coach!!!!!

**quincy** · 08-15-2012, 10:19 AM

From experience 90%+ of pitching coaches teach that type of delivery, this forum refers to it as hello elbow. Also from experience if a coach teaches hello elbow it is not worth even bothering having a conversation with them.

If possible find a coach in the 10% that teaches more an IR, this forum’s acronym, type delivery. It can hard to find one.

**Amy in AZ.** · 08-15-2012, 10:25 AM

Have you tried what he is teaching, yourself? Feel all of the muscles that are pulled doing that. Then, do it as fast and hard as you can about 125 times, like a pitcher would.

Release the ball and relax. Let the arm fly wherever it wants. There should be no more shoving your elbow up in the air.

Can you tell us where you are located? Maybe we can help.

**Stonecrabs02** · 08-15-2012, 01:11 PM

We are in florida. Is It just another style? is 1 type wrong, and 1 type right? Is it doing any harm to her? What should I do?

**Amy in AZ.** · 08-15-2012, 01:30 PM

It is not just a different style, it is bad mechanics and yes, could eventually hurt your daughter's arm, back, etc. All of your answers are in this sticky. Internal Rotation

Could you post a video of her pitching?

**Stonecrabs02** · 08-15-2012, 02:49 PM

In reference to the chicken wing. Sometimes after releasing her elbow would be as high as her head and away from her body. Is that dangerous? Is that bad mechanics as well?

**Amy in AZ.** · 08-15-2012, 03:06 PM

Maybe not. A chicken wing occurs just before or at release of the ball. It matters little what happens after she releases the ball. It is "release and relax" and let the arm fly. Depending on the pitch, my daughter's arm often traveled up and out, but it is natural, not forced like the "hello elbow."

I am thinking that maybe your DD (darling daughter) has this pitching stuff down right and someone is trying to change her.

**GunnerShotgun** · 08-15-2012, 03:19 PM

My experience.

Our current PC took our 8u daughter who was picking daises in RF and turned her into a really good 10u pitcher. Having said that he does teach the high follow through (hello elbow) but you have to understand that he was trying to correct the other 99 things she was doing wrong at the same time.

When she was 11 she was actually throwing IR and didn't know it (most good pitchers figure this out on their own in my opinion). Her PC was trying to coach her out of it so I started looking at college pitchers on YouTube in slow motion and figured out they weren't pitching with hello elbow. My research landed me to this forum and the infamous IR thread.

We still go to the same pitching coach, when he brings up her follow through she just smiles and nods. She knows the difference on whats right (IR) and wrong (Hello Elbow), we just deal with it. Pitching coaches teaching IR are hard to find. We like our PC and the rates/location are good.

Would I do it differently knowing what I know now? Probably not. I doubt I could have done a better job with a girl that has never pitched before. Once he got her to a point where I could take over it ended up being the perfect scenario.

At this point she probably knows more about pitching than I do so my work is almost done. I have moved into the consultant role.

**Stonecrabs02** · 08-16-2012, 07:54 AM

Thanks for everyones help. She had practice last night, and go figure it was 1 of the better practices ever. I will try to get a video of her pitching up loaded

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