Thread: Rotational Hitting

Isnt it about time to move on? And I dont mean from this site. I am talking about your personal vendetta against people who have a sincere interest in helping kids get better.

The method isnt really the issue with you. This is personal and for the life of me I really dont understand why you would want to live your life in that kind of turmoil. When we are all gone will any of this really matter? Life is way too short. And your waisting a lot of it on something that isnt going to change no matter how hard you try to change it with your own personal bias.

Elliott.

Coach B25,

Time is flying for me as well. My dd turns 13 next week. No boys yet, thank goodness. I'm enjoying the journey but sometimes it's hard not to want everything to happen right away. I just have to remind myself that patience is a virtue.

Pops

Very interesting reading, but has anyone come with strong scientific data to correlate what has been said. Ok I might have missed something since I did jump till the end. From what I gather video swing analysis is done with camcorder technology? Which is 25 - 30 frames per second. That is good enough for the pocket of Joe average I might think. But what about the 30 plus frame per second capture rates.
If you are able to follow this link Biomechanics of Youth Windmill Softball Pitching -- Werner et al. 33 (4): 552 -- American Journal of Sports Medicine you would see high speed cameras being used to capture windmill pitching action. No, it is not normal cinemagraphics but the technology used to do motion capture in games and computer animated movies.
This particular study used speeds up to 240Hz and the computer was left to do the maths....... Well if you have an institution that would want to put the question to rest they could fund the research. The above research was used to determine whether the forces generated by the windmill pitching action could cause harm to a youth female pitcher. The conclusion was that the same forces created by youth baseball pitchers existed in youth softball. And I mean within in same reference planes. So if baseball pitchers are at risk due to the reported cases of throwing related injuries, the young ladies have the same risk.
So does such research exist out there?

I have spent the past 2 hours reading through many of these posts and this is what I learned.

1. If you did not play at an elite level you do not know anything.
   
2. Looking at slow-mo video can't tell you anything unless you have hit a curve ball, a change-up and a fast ball at an elite level.
   
3. Epstein (even though he played at an elite level) knows nothing and has gotten it all wrong.
   
4. The one dad (POPS) that actually put his "DD" through the Epstein camp seems happy with the result.
   
5. Pushing off the rear heal actually mean pushing off the in-side ball of the foot?
   
6. You can post behind an anonymous name and be an Olympic star, a coach to all the greatest pros, or best friends with A-Rod, and you can do this while questioning others credentials.
   
7. DD means darling daughter.
   
8. A lot is one word - (alot)

Where do I go from here? Well I will continue to teach my kids what works for them and if you don't see them in MLB or team USA maybe they will just deliver your grandchildren in the maternity ward or teach them science in HS. Heck they can always log onto a site like this and call themselves TheHitDR or MissOlympic2016 and make unsubstantiated claims about everything.

Thank you, Amen!!!!!!

Originally Posted by TryIN2GetItRight

I[B]
[*]Epstein (even though he played at an elite level) knows nothing and has gotten it all wrong.:

Rule #1: Always compare anything anyone tells you to slow motion video of the best in the world. Including me.

Originally Posted by TryIN2GetItRight

[*]The one dad (POPS) that actually put his "DD" through the Epstein camp seems happy with the result.

:

Epstein will absolutely improve most youth fp hitters. Many who have taken his stuff to high levels will tell they hit a ceiling. Again, see rule #1.

As far as Epstein or Slaught or any other former high level player or famous guru, after awhile you notice many of them vehemently disagree with each other. The debate between Epstein and Slaught, to pick two well known gurus, at the NFCA conference left ZERO doubt they both think the other is way off base. The impromptu debate in front of college and gold coaches a few years back between Slaught and Englishbey at Spring Klein left no doubt they disagree on some things. So...how do you decide who is right and who is wrong between the gurus with outstanding resumes? It's a legit problem for the player or parent looking for help to improve. Again, I refer you to rule #1 and your own eyes though I do understand the frustration and eye glazing. Lots of rhetoric and fog. I suggest using rule #1 for a truth detector. It's not perfect for reasons that could be at least one thread of their own but it's the best test I've found.

Mark

You seem very grounded and rational and I do appreciate your input. No claims to fame or greatness but the simple rational of see it for yourself. I do like that.

I have spent about 8 months researching hitting for my kids, (2 boys and one girl). It seems to me the best way to approach this is on a gradual basis.

What I have found is Epstein's system is easy, accessible and can get you started and give your kids terrific results. There are major elements that are lacking and hitting a ceiling is certainly one of the problems, but Englishbey and many others feature body movements that are far too complex for most 8 - 12 year olds. Hitting is an evolution. A hitter must take small steps to develop. Coordinating body movements and lack of strength are a major hurdle when working with kids. Through all of this you try to make sure the successes outweigh the failures and you try to keep it simple so they do not get frustrated and give up.

If we are talking about young adults - well, I will let you know what I think in 3 to 5 years when I jump that hurdle (God help me).

What I am trying to do for my kids is find Gurus (not a single Guru) that can take us through that path one step ahead of the rest. So far it seems to be working for us.

Thanks for your feedback - you seem to be a wise man.

Epstein is truly a snake oil salesman and was blown away by Slugo at the NFCA because I was there and I know you were not!

Originally Posted by TryIN2GetItRight

Mark

You seem very grounded and rational and I do appreciate your input. No claims to fame or greatness but the simple rational of see it for yourself. I do like that.

I have spent about 8 months researching hitting for my kids, (2 boys and one girl). It seems to me the best way to approach this is on a gradual basis.

What I have found is Epstein's system is easy, accessible and can get you started and give your kids terrific results. There are major elements that are lacking and hitting a ceiling is certainly one of the problems, but Englishbey and many others feature body movements that are far too complex for most 8 - 12 year olds. Hitting is an evolution. A hitter must take small steps to develop. Coordinating body movements and lack of strength are a major hurdle when working with kids. Through all of this you try to make sure the successes outweigh the failures and you try to keep it simple so they do not get frustrated and give up.

If we are talking about young adults - well, I will let you know what I think in 3 to 5 years when I jump that hurdle (God help me).

What I am trying to do for my kids is find Gurus (not a single Guru) that can take us through that path one step ahead of the rest. So far it seems to be working for us.

Thanks for your feedback - you seem to be a wise man.

Thank you for your kind words. A caution, though I agree with you on the simplicity of Epstein's system and no doubt it will improve most youth hitters, I don't consider what is learned foundational for the next step. However, if a kid is hitting as well as they want to at the highest level they aspire to, then that is, after all, the goal.

Originally Posted by Hit Dr.24

Epstein is truly a snake oil salesman and was blown away by Slugo at the NFCA because I was there and I know you were not!

If you are speaking to me, that is true. However, someone very close to me was more closely involved in that debate than all but three.

I do agree Don is much closer than Mike. I think Don's understanding of the swing is two dimensional and that rock skipping analogy was a real bad idea but God bless him for getting Candrea and Enquist on tape saying the FP swing is pretty much the MLB swing.