Thread: Thoughts on 12u Hitting?

Jim … you made an excellent post above.

Want to follow-up and solicit further critique.

When I attempt to accentuate the bending of the spine near the L2/L3 region … during the portion of the swing where we see the ‘lateral tilt’ of the shoulders … then the reactionary feel for me is that of the upper rear leg driving … and rotation is observed. I am rotated, yet not actively attempting to rotate. My hip leads, largely as a result of that spine action in conjunction with the synchronization of the swing.

Originally Posted by jbooth

The shoulders tilt AND turn. They tilt first as a result of you trying not to turn them and as part of getting the back elbow down, then they turn.



That's a pretty accurate statement, except that the bending of the spine isn't the main factor in making the back shoulder drop, it is the dropping of the back elbow that also lowers the back shoulder. Turning the knob toward the ball causes the shoulders to tilt. The lower spine at the L2 L3, vertebrae bends at the same time.



I agree. This is what "keep the front shoulder in" means. You resist turning the shoulders at first, but they DO turn, and they turn before contact.



I believe the barrel is thrown just after the shoulders lose their resistance and start to turn, which is after they tilted.
I agree that the shoulders quickly decelerate after the initial turn, but they do pull the hands, and they do turn or rotate.

You can say they resist turning, but they do turn, and that turn does make the hands move forward, which starts the throw of the barrel.

These guys all have their hips and shoulders fully turned toward the pitcher before contact. You can debate what they did to get there, but just prior to, or at contact, (not after), their hips and shoulders have turned.

I think you've summed it up very well. I can't speak for Doc, but my interpretation of his dvd/hitting philosophy is
that shoulder turn sould be delayed for as long as possible. One of the things "the tilt not turn" he speaks of (regarding the shoulders) does is, it creates a mechanism that creates separation between the lower body and the upper body which prevents a gate like swing.
A point Doc makes on the dvd is, the tilting of the shoulders starts with the tilting of the hips which happen
after the slotting of the back elbow which you have stated above. I wonder how may people actually think that?
I do.
I think the Bautista clip posted here is great (the best, IMO) clip to study the actions of the shoulders, arms, hand and bat angle.

I will respectfully disagree with you on the role of the hands.
I am an very "hand-centric" guy.
What my contention is, "it's not an issue of if the hands attack the ball, but when they attack the ball".
What i have taught is the hands forcefully unhinge the wrists at the same time the lead leg extends fully straight.
In othert words, the 2 conincide.
Thanks for the insight. You as well Five.

Originally Posted by theaddition

A point Doc makes on the dvd is, the tilting of the shoulders starts with the tilting of the hips which happen
after the slotting of the back elbow which you have stated above. I wonder how may people actually think that?

TheAddition ... can I get you to specify the "tilting of the hips"? Are you speaking of 'anterior pelvic tilt', 'posterior pelvic tilt', or something different?

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

TheAddition ... can I get you to specify the "tilting of the hips"? Are you speaking of 'anterior pelvic tilt', 'posterior pelvic tilt', or something different?

The hip socket closest to the plate during the swing, (right for RH) is lower than the other (very slightly) as the hips turn.
The spine bends a bit at L2/L3 as the hips turn.

Originally Posted by jbooth

The hip socket closest to the plate during the swing, (right for RH) is lower than the other (very slightly) as the hips turn.
The spine bends a bit at L2/L3 as the hips turn.

Thank you ... so this tilting of the hips is not necessarily anterior pelvic tilt, but more a result of the bending of the spine. It is more of a lateral tilting of the hips.