Thread: Thoughts on 12u Hitting?

Originally Posted by jbooth

I don't think you understand what I said.

Perhaps

Originally Posted by jbooth

I believe very much of what Yeager says. I don't think you understand what he's saying either.

The legs turn the hips, the hips turn the shoulders, and when the shoulders turn they pull the hands. Sure, from there on, the arms and hands move the bat. The arms and hands move the bat prior to shoulder movement also, but not at the ball. They move the barrel into position to be thrown by the arms and hands, at the instant that the shoulders move.

This is not what Doc advocates at all.

He states the goal is zero shoulder turn. This is stated on the dvd that I am watching as I am typing this.
The goal for shoulder action is: (direct quote) "the shoulders tilt not turn."
One could surmise he is saying the shoulders are by passed, in terms of shoulder rotation.
He also advocates throwing the barrel. With the hands at the ball.
The Doc is also heavily into attack oppo.
He divides the swing into back side and front side mainly.
Contrast that to the conventional lower half vs. upper half. Though he addresses that secondarily.
If I were you, I'd purchase the dvd.

Originally Posted by theaddition

He states the goal is zero shoulder turn. This is stated on the dvd that I am watching as I am typing this.
The goal for shoulder action is: (direct quote) "the shoulders tilt not turn."
One could surmise he is saying the shoulders are by passed, in terms of shoulder rotation.
He also advocates throwing the barrel. With the hands at the ball.
The Doc is also heavily into attack oppo.
He divides the swing into back side and front side mainly.
Contrast that to the conventional lower half vs. upper half. Though he addresses that secondarily.
If I were you, I'd purchase the dvd.

Well, I respectfully disagree.

I'm not suggesting that you should think about pulling your front shoulder out. In fact I believe in the old saying "keep the front shoulder in", but it is a fact that the shoulders turn, and when they do, the hands move.

Yes, the shoulders tilt before they turn, and the elbow drops before they turn, but they do turn, and they do cause the hands to move.

Are the shoulders not turning 90 degrees below? Are they not turned quite a bit, PRIOR to contact? I believe Yeager means not to fly open, which means you would turn the shoulders before the hips forced them to turn. Or, you rushed the hands and shoulders before the hips.



From frame 1 to 6 below, his shoulders turned quite a bit, yet his hands are only at the plate, and the bat is still on the yellow line.
Can you honestly say, the shoulders don't turn, and that they don't pull the hands?

As Kelvin Miyahira explained in his recent April article, the shoulders need to be given a role. That role should be to “tilt” and “not turn”. The shoulders tilt along with the lateral bend … … … it is a powerful action that can result in the rear leg extracting significant ground reaction forces at the same time.

Basically, as one arrives at launch, the rear shoulder will be higher than the front shoulder. From there (launch position) one attempts to prevent “shoulder turn” while bending their spine so that the rear shoulder tilts lower than the front shoulder. Once you feel your spine bend and shoulder tilt, you can turn your shoulder through.

Yes the shoulder is seen to turn towards contact. Yet one is resisting this … especially towards the beginning of the swing … and it is this resistance that leads to SnF, which is the fastest way to launch the barrel towards contact. In terms of throwing the barrel … Yeager explains this as the shoulders further bracing, or resisting, while the barrel is thrown.

Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing

As Kelvin Miyahira explained in his recent April article, the shoulders need to be given a role. That role should be to “tilt” and “not turn”. The shoulders tilt along with the lateral bend … … … it is a powerful action that can result in the rear leg extracting significant ground reaction forces at the same time.

The shoulders tilt AND turn. They tilt first as a result of you trying not to turn them and as part of getting the back elbow down, then they turn.

Basically, as one arrives at launch, the rear shoulder will be higher than the front shoulder. From there (launch position) one attempts to prevent “shoulder turn” while bending their spine so that the rear shoulder tilts lower than the front shoulder. Once you feel your spine bend and shoulder tilt, you can turn your shoulder through.

That's a pretty accurate statement, except that the bending of the spine isn't the main factor in making the back shoulder drop, it is the dropping of the back elbow that also lowers the back shoulder. Turning the knob toward the ball causes the shoulders to tilt. The lower spine at the L2 L3, vertebrae bends at the same time.

Yes the shoulder is seen to turn towards contact. Yet one is resisting this … especially towards the beginning of the swing …

I agree. This is what "keep the front shoulder in" means. You resist turning the shoulders at first, but they DO turn, and they turn before contact.

In terms of throwing the barrel … Yeager explains this as the shoulders further bracing, or resisting, while the barrel is thrown.

I believe the barrel is thrown just after the shoulders lose their resistance and start to turn, which is after they tilted.
I agree that the shoulders quickly decelerate after the initial turn, but they do pull the hands, and they do turn or rotate.

You can say they resist turning, but they do turn, and that turn does make the hands move forward, which starts the throw of the barrel.

These guys all have their hips and shoulders fully turned toward the pitcher before contact. You can debate what they did to get there, but just prior to, or at contact, (not after), their hips and shoulders have turned.

She can turn, tilt, tilt and turn, start with her hips, start with her hands, or try them all. We would strike her out every time with her head spinning like that.

Originally Posted by redhotcoach

She can turn, tilt, tilt and turn, start with her hips, start with her hands, or try them all. We would strike her out every time with her head spinning like that.

Originally Posted by redhotcoach

She can turn, tilt, tilt and turn, start with her hips, start with her hands, or try them all. We would strike her out every time with her head spinning like that.

Not sure that I see her head spinning like you. I see a few things...most importantly the lack of weight transfer forward. In the clip that I posted, she is not coiling or stretching. This is where she and I need to work the most. I also think that posture is going to be important to get the appropriate hand path.

I certainly appreciate your opinion. It is good for her to get feedback from eyes that are far more trained than mine. Plus, dad's opinion isn't always the right opinion in her eyes.

Really?
Watch her pony tail in your first post, no .1 seconds taken out of the swing.