Front Side Resistance

I will have them on occasion close one eye (alternate eyes) just to force them to track better....both eyes open you tend to wander....one eye open can force you to work harder tracking....

SBFAMILY said:

Tracking and Vision can be taught. There are many vision drills and our Olpmpic team in China used many of them. I discuss these when I work with kids , but they are told they need to work on these to get better on their own. Few use a good two eye look to track the ball, so they are trying to do this with one eye and have no idea which eye is the dominate one.

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When you coil your rear hip is the relationship between your rear femur and rear hip described by the term ‘internal rotation’? It is for most people. When your hip direction reverses, does the relationship between the rear femur and rear hip change? If not, then is the rear hip really being ‘uncoiled’ relative to the rear femur? If the rear hip isn’t being uncoiled, then is something resisting that? If the actual action of the rear hip uncoiling is being resisted, then how is it that the rear femur AND rear hip are seen to reverse their direction? Answer that … and you’ll have a better understanding wrt the under-the-hood actions taking place.

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As always I will defer to jbooth as to what is scientifically going on in the rear hip joint. From a pure feel perspective, when I swing in slow motion with an emphasis on trying to figure out what is going on in my rear hip socket, I do in fact think there is a change in relationship between my femur and pelvic girdle when my hips begin to turn forward (open).

When I coil I am clearly internally rotated. However at the point of transition when my hips begin to turn forward I feel like my hips go from internal rotation back towards the neutral position. There is no doubt in my mind that my butt muscles are trying to turn my femur back towards the catcher. Obviously it can't because my back foot is on the ground supporting all my body weight. There are many, many clips of pro hitters whose hips are clearly beginning to turn forward prior to their back leg turning inward. IMO this is indicates a change in relationship between the femur and pelvic girdle back towards neutral. I have never agreed with the notion that a perpetually internally rotated rear leg turns the hips forward. I know that's the conventional wisdom these days on the various hitting boards, but I don't follow conventional wisdom. In my ten years of coaching and working with kids, I have found that conventional wisdom is almost always wrong.

I feel like my butt muscles are trying to turn my rear leg towards the catcher and because of closed chain articulation, my hips turn forward. Once my hips begin to turn forward, I feel like my rear leg naturally internally rotates so that it doesn't slow done my weight shift.

From my perspective, if the hips go from IR towards neutral, then it is essentially going from IR to ER. However very quickly after the hips begin to turn forward the rear leg begins to IR. Maybe the folks who believe the rear leg remains IR throughout the swing can explain how the rear leg ends back up in the neutral position during the follow through? How can a hitter start in the neutral position in their stance...coil...and then end up back in the neutral position without the relationship in the pelvic girdle and rear femur changing?

SBFAMILY said:

Tracking and Vision can be taught. There are many vision drills and our Olpmpic team in China used many of them. I discuss these when I work with kids , but they are told they need to work on these to get better on their own. Few use a good two eye look to track the ball, so they are trying to do this with one eye and have no idea which eye is the dominate one.

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One drill I use consists of a batter wearing a winter hat that is adjusted to cover their left eye for a RH batter (or right eye for left-handed batter). They hit live with this drill and are encouraged to get a good look at the ball with the one remaining eye.

When using two eyes ... what can happen is that a hitter can get lazy, or perhaps 'too relaxed' is a better terminology, and in the process only truly use their 'lead eye' (left eye for a RH hitter and right eye for a LH hitter) to view the oncoming pitch. This drill forces the hitter to use the eye that they tend to get lazy with. From there it's just a matter of reminding them to see the ball with two eyes ... and if they forget then they get to wear a hat.

I guess I'm missing something , how do you train them or make them better? How do you test to see if they are using one or two eyes? There are many vision training methods on the market that the MLB use.


Old post from baseball fever.

Sure ... have used vision training products. Kids seemed to enjoy them.

In the above drill I was attempted to describe one approach to encourage the use of binocular vision.

well-

try using the rear hip this way:

Teacherman's HittingIllustrated.com - View Single Post - Separation....Visual.....or Not

for "S to 5", see:

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/images/PujolsStretch.gif

for "E to 1", see:

http://hittingillustrated.com/images/EdmondsPull.gif

tom.guerry said:

well-

try using the rear hip this way:

Teacherman's HittingIllustrated.com - View Single Post - Separation....Visual.....or Not

for "S to 5", see:

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/images/PujolsStretch.gif

for "E to 1", see:

http://hittingillustrated.com/images/EdmondsPull.gif

Click to expand...

Very clever Tom. Post a link with quotes from someone who is banned from virtually every hitting discussion board. A back door approach to getting a banned person's comments into the discussion. Anyways, IMO Teacherman is a crackpot. He's the one who has never produced the pattern. Every demo swing he has every done in his living room has him leaning back out of balance. I think I will follow Ted Williams over a pool hall owner who has never had one at bat in MLB. The guy has invented his own language and theories on how to hit in order to sell monthly subscriptions to his website.

Since you are so fond of quoting your fearless leader Teacherman over at Hitting Illustrated, here are a couple of recent quotes from him:

"The hip NEVER turns forward and drives. It is ALWAYS pulling rearward. EVEN WHEN YOU SEE IT TURNING FORWARD. It is pulling back AGAINST the rear leg's internal rotation....with the internal rotation winning and turning the 'still pulling back hip' forward. It is part of the rear side resistance. It is defeated by the rear leg. The rear leg drives.

The rear hip constantly/increasingly/continuously pulls back, with the scap, with the top hand, with the barrel turn. Continuous stretching occurs until the barrel gets flat....when rear side resistance gets to zero....and the leg yanks everything through.”

In other words....the swing IS a gated swing. But you must realize that the rear leg is the post"

IMO anyone following this advice needs to have their head examined. He's a pool hall owner Tom! He rolled out of bed one morning and decided to start a hitting website. Ted Williams is a hall of fame MLB player with over 4700 ML at bats.

In the past I thought … possibly incorrectly … that you attributed Williams’ lower body running start to primarily be an effort to get balanced. What Williams was trying to do is remain dynamically balanced as he powered his swing.

Balance is about control … and Williams very much wished to be in control of his swing. As TomG stated … Williams was golf savy … which is very true … Williams studied golf to further improve his baseball swing mechanics. Williams understood that balance was a checkmark as to the explosion from a proper position. He understood that when you are balanced that you are under control.

My other point was … that one ‘can’ make use of their hips as you’ve described and simply ‘spin’ … which is not at all what Williams did. While Williams had a focus on a usage of his hips, his usage was inclusive of a weight shift … and without that weight shift Williams would not have been the hitter he was.

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The point that Williams was trying to convey is that Balancing on two feet in your stance is not the same as trying to balance on one leg after you pick up the front foot.

Williams picked up his front foot to cock his hips. Once he picked up his front foot he had to stay balanced. The way he said he balanced after he picked up his front foot to cock his hips was to let his head come forward. He said twice in the one paragraph I posted, that he came forward because it was the only acceptable way he could stay balanced when standing on one foot.

I find that Ted's way of looking at forward movement is completely different than what mostly gets taught in the hitting world today. IMO his way of looking at forward movement is a perfect fit for fastpitch, where the pitchers are releasing the ball so much closer to the batter. IMO there is a big advantage in fastpitch to staying back or keeping the hands back and not escorting the hands forward anymore than is absolutely necessary. IMO Williams' hip driven approach to weight shift is a perfect match for fastpitch.

Also, IMO it's impossible to spin with a butt driven weight shift as I/Williams describe, provided that pressure is maintained at the rear foot. As jbooth has correctly pointed out, incorrect back leg action is what causes spin. Engaging the butt muscles to open the hips does not in and of itself cause spin.

In the "push-block-push" straight line approach to weight shift, where does the first push take place? Is the stride considered the first push? Is the pressure felt at the back foot during the transition considered the first push? I'm honestly trying to understand where you and others see this first push.

Maybe jbooth can chime in as he seems to explain things in a manner that I can relate to as he and I both seem to agree that the force for the weight shift originates with the butt muscles.

Here is more detail which agrees with tewks and with tewks understanding of what high level hiiters do (including Bustos and Yee) and agrees with experience of lynnelles (lady physical therapist/coach). Banning is often a sign of info so good it is threatening to belief systems, so I would just try and see rather than prejudicially dismiss it.

Separation....Visual.....or Not - Teacherman's HittingIllustrated.com

What is separation?

It is the hip socket bottomed out.

It is the coil of the hip socket against an internally rotating leg....to the range of motion limit.

You will never find it by looking at surface checkpoints.

You need to feel the swing....not see them.

is the hip coiling back and the hip turning forward without overlap. To determine allback all forward.....simply ask yourself....is the leg driving?....or is the hip driving? If the leg is driving a resisting hip....there is separation....and it is not allback allforward.

the resistance must get behind the rear hip....for the leg to drive.

Almost everyone I work with....some for months/years....push out of their stretch....instead of pull more deeper/into the stretch....to launch the swing.

They unload forward instead of rearward. The push forward instead of continuing to let the rag wring not only be the loading/stretching....but also the unloading.

The amateurs unload out of their stretch....they push out of their stretch....instead of unloading 'into' their load.....unloading by stretching more.

There are 4 links that have to be pulling rearward....and have to be as tight as they can be....throughout the swing....and don't 'give' until after launch.

The first link is the bottoming out of the hip socket. Hip coil against the internally rotating leg.
The second link is the lower back pulling back....TIGHTENING the hip socket. It can pull back and not tighten the hip socket. It must tighten it.
The third link is the scap clamp/pinch. Again....it must tighten the hip socket.
The fourth link is the pull back of the top hand....the wrist flick,

Not getting the links tight is the most oft mistake.

The second most oft mistake....is pushing foward rather than launching rearward.

All the pull backs....MUST.....lead to a stronger pull back.....in the hip socket.....so that.....the leg resists more.

If your pull backs aren't getting resisted by the rear leg.....you've got nothing.

You won't find the pattern until you fuse your upper body into a unit. Say a rectangle. That sits on one of it's corners on top of the rear hip socket. And the only thing that moves....is that rectangle 'around' the ball of the femur....against the leg.....and the hands will pivot.

If you have more movement than that....you are too loose to find the pattern.

OK....in my 4 links discussion above....there is the following...

1. Hip socket separation. (coil against resisting leg)
2. Lower back pull back. (tightens the hip socket)
3. Scap clamp/pinch. (tightens the hip socket more...and upper back)
4. Top hand pulls up and over to launch.

These are the 4 links that pull back and tighten.

Then see summary post:

Teacherman's HittingIllustrated.com - View Single Post - Separation....Visual.....or Not

The entire action....is a result of lower back pull back and scap clamp/pinch....on top of a bottomed out hip socket.

Pull back with your scap as you pull back with your lower back as you pull back with your hip against an internally rotating leg....and see what your rear arm does.

The 'rear arm'....does nothing. It is done to.

Just like you don't sit when you hit....but you are sat.....by the loading process.

As you pull back like that....sufficiently....continuously....your hip socket 'rolls' around the ball of the femur.

The hip itself bottoms out with coil. You are tight. As you pull back with your lower back....you get tighter....horizontally rearward pulling tightens the socket. But your leg fights it....tries to turn forward. Does so...enough to balance the pull backs. As you pull back more...with the hip and back...and now with the scap...the leg turns more. As you pull back with the scap more....the leg turns more. You end up with laterall tilted shoulders because of the rearward pulling against the internally rotating leg and the move out….etc

Wellphyt said:

The point that Williams was trying to convey is that Balancing on two feet in your stance is not the same as trying to balance on one leg after you pick up the front foot.

Williams picked up his front foot to cock his hips. Once he picked up his front foot he had to stay balanced. The way he said he balanced after he picked up his front foot to cock his hips was to let his head come forward. He said twice in the one paragraph I posted, that he came forward because it was the only acceptable way he could stay balanced when standing on one foot.

I find that Ted's way of looking at forward movement is completely different than what mostly gets taught in the hitting world today. IMO his way of looking at forward movement is a perfect fit for fastpitch, where the pitchers are releasing the ball so much closer to the batter. IMO there is a big advantage in fastpitch to staying back or keeping the hands back and not escorting the hands forward anymore than is absolutely necessary. IMO Williams' hip driven approach to weight shift is a perfect match for fastpitch.

Also, IMO it's impossible to spin with a butt driven weight shift as I/Williams describe, provided that pressure is maintained at the rear foot. As jbooth has correctly pointed out, incorrect back leg action is what causes spin. Engaging the butt muscles to open the hips does not in and of itself cause spin.

In the "push-block-push" straight line approach to weight shift, where does the first push take place? Is the stride considered the first push? Is the pressure felt at the back foot during the transition considered the first push? I'm honestly trying to understand where you and others see this first push.

Maybe jbooth can chime in as he seems to explain things in a manner that I can relate to as he and I both seem to agree that the force for the weight shift originates with the butt muscles.

Click to expand...

What you seem to desire is a short stride ... as in hitting in a phone booth ... sound familiar?

In terms of push-block-push ... the first push IMO is from the back-side. You ask if that push is the push associated with a 'stride' ... the answer is 'no' ... the stride is fueled by forward-by-coiling ... and even in Doc's description, the push is towards the end of the stride. The actual stride is a loading type move. You'll note in Dixon's description that after the forward-by-coiling was a shift to explosion ... not the actual explosion itself [... 1) forward-by-coil, 2) shift to explosion, and 3) explosion].

Not long ago Doc made a video on the topic. It was in response to the question about using the cue of the rear knee pressing the front heel into the ground. He explained his use of that cue. What he was advocating was insuring that the rear leg 'went' ... that the rear leg unloaded to plant the front heel. In his terms ... he wanted to see significant abduction, or pressing action, resulting in the front heel being planted. Basically ... he was trying to emphasize abduction from the hip joint ... not far off from what either you, I or Jim are describing.

In the video Doc put together for us, he expressed negative thoughts on the perspective of getting the front heel down first ... and suggested that having the front foot flat-footed early led to limited use of the rear leg ... the concern being that the rear leg wouldn't be used up to its potential as a force producer.

Not sure if I've answered your questions ... but if not then ask away.

It is true that Williams placed an emphasis on his hips to power his swing. It is also true that Williams understood the importance of remaining balanced. Further, it is true that Williams underwent a weight shift in what he considered to be an application of his hips. Williams' purpose of performing his lower body running start was to power his swing ... not simply to be balanced ... he was already balanced ... but he wished to power his swing, and yes, he wished to remain balanced while in the act of powering his swing.