Thread: dd swing what needs improving

Originally Posted by cshilt

I'm not a fan of this drill either. I do not like the stacking of the rear leg and you can see the shoe displace and see the weight shift from the inside edge of the foot to the outside edge. This is not something I want my hitters to feel.

I prefer to have my hitters learn the feeling of picking up the stride foot and not having their weight go backwards. We utilize the bucket drill for this. Sometimes I'll also place resistance on the front shoulder and ask the hitter to pick up their stride foot, if they go backwards there is immediate feedback.

As I've said, I believe the part in bold is extremely important. In my system I teach it once I'm confident that the kids understand what it feels like to maintain the pressure at the back foot during the transition. I've also had good results getting the correct action at the back foot by simply using the sidearm throw blueprint. That's always my preference. I would not recommend doing the BM drill beyond the point where the kids get a feel for how to hold onto the pressure during the transition. IOW it's not an everyday type drill. It's a drill with a very specific purpose.

I share other's concerns with drills that overemphasize movements. However this is one instance where I feel there is a benefit in the kids feeling the directional pressure at the back foot during the coil and transition. Your mileage may differ.

Here is Ripkin Jr taking a similar approach with the hip coil.

Originally Posted by Wellphyt

Where did I say the pressure should be on the outside edge of the foot? I believe I have consistently said that the pressure is in an outward "direction". I know it's common to teach kids to keep the weight on the "inside edge" of the back foot and not let the weight shift back onto the outside edge. For the most part I try and stay away from teaching "inside/outside" edge displacement. My focus is on the "direction" of pressure at the back foot during the coil and the uncoil; as well as how to stay balanced when the front foot is lifted to cock the hips. My experience is that if kids get those two things correct, the weight at the back foot automatically goes to the inside edge when the front foot is lifted.

In my DD's case, she used to literally bend her back knee and lean back some when she lifted her front foot. Now she knows that the way to stay balanced after she lifts her front foot is to let her torso/head come forward. She doesn't purposefully try to come forward by pushing off the back foot; she just comes forward enough to keep her head close to centered between her feet. When a hitter comes forward after they pick up their front foot, the weight automatically goes to the inside edge of the back foot; right?

If a hitter coils as they come forward, they should feel pressure at the back foot in an outward direction because the hips are being turned against a firm rear leg. I think most would agree to that. I believe even Tom is on record as agreeing with that. The question is, what happens at the transition when the hips reverse and begin to turn forward? Sevam1, myself and many others believe that when the hips reverse, the pressure at the back foot at the moment of transition, remains in an outward direction.

Originally Posted by Wellphyt

As I've said, I believe the part in bold is extremely important. In my system I teach it once I'm confident that the kids understand what it feels like to maintain the pressure at the back foot during the transition. I've also had good results getting the correct action at the back foot by simply using the sidearm throw blueprint. That's always my preference. I would not recommend doing the BM drill beyond the point where the kids get a feel for how to hold onto the pressure during the transition. IOW it's not an everyday type drill. It's a drill with a very specific purpose.

I share other's concerns with drills that overemphasize movements. However this is one instance where I feel there is a benefit in the kids feeling the directional pressure at the back foot during the coil and transition. Your mileage may differ.

Here is Ripkin Jr taking a similar approach with the hip coil.

I hear him talking and see it in the drill, but it isn't how he swings at all.

I prefer how he explains it here:

ripken undoubtedly knows the look and feel of the weight shift but he may not describe it well enough to be reliably communicated to others.

tewks at ABAthletics and teacherman at H-I do the best job of full explanation.

as ripken says weight shift involves a bck then forth, not jus a forward weight shift.

go through the AB/tewks/austin articles related to throw, swing and weight shift (running start,bautista and colabello examples,etc) for an accessible full explanation:

Articles

The terminology here is consistent/kinesiologically based enough (not entirely because complex movements, synch balance and feel require higher level symbolic representation to apporach adequate communication) to convey what happens, escaping the old "rotational vs linear vs hybrid" trap.

The spine engine and stretch and fire descriptions are good.

In addition to weight shifting back then forward (nmot "just forward") the body as to stretch in a dynamic way where shift is directional and primarily from behind to forward since the pelvis turns open while resistance gets and keeps IR in the back hip and the hands and bat behind the hip line/corner so that the swing puts the front foot down/shifts the weight as a non-2 piece action.


Retaining IR in the rear hip is necessary for the spatially early batspeed with running start. what is required is the "tug of war" at the "rearhip pivot" with "hip as bottom of top" resisting the IR of the rear leg/femur. with a running start of the arcing rearward bathead and opening the pelvis from the back side.

IR-ER-IR makes hip "top of bottom" preventing spatially early accelleration and stretch and fire

Originally Posted by tom.guerry

ripken undoubtedly knows the look and feel of the weight shift but he may not describe it well enough to be reliably communicated to others.

-snip-

as ripken says weight shift involves a bck then forth, not jus a forward weight shift.

-snip-

In addition to weight shifting back then forward (nmot "just forward") the body as to stretch in a dynamic way where shift is directional and primarily from behind to forward since the pelvis turns open while resistance gets and keeps IR in the back hip and the hands and bat behind the hip line/corner so that the swing puts the front foot down/shifts the weight as a non-2 piece action.


Retaining IR in the rear hip is necessary for the spatially early batspeed with running start. what is required is the "tug of war" at the "rearhip pivot" with "hip as bottom of top" resisting the IR of the rear leg/femur. with a running start of the arcing rearward bathead and opening the pelvis from the back side.

IR-ER-IR makes hip "top of bottom" preventing spatially early accelleration and stretch and fire

I don't think weight shift should be thought of in spatial terms of back then forward, as that can be confusing. Certainly there are examples of hitters who's hips and shoulders move backwards, just as there are examples of hitters who's hips and shoulders stay in relatively the same spot while they perform a weight shift. I think Ripken's game swing is an example of the former. Here is another:


Start at 44 seconds.

To me weight shift is transferring the weight to the back leg (thus storing the energy "back") before shifting it back to the front leg as part of the swing.

Originally Posted by cshilt

I don't think weight shift should be thought of in spatial terms of back then forward, as that can be confusing. Certainly there are examples of hitters who's hips and shoulders move backwards, just as there are examples of hitters who's hips and shoulders stay in relatively the same spot while they perform a weight shift. I think Ripken's game swing is an example of the former. Here is another:


Start at 44 seconds.

To me weight shift is transferring the weight to the back leg (thus storing the energy "back") before shifting it back to the front leg as part of the swing.

Agree with your description, I just refer to it as weighting the rear leg, while cocking the hips slightly, land on a flexed front leg at toe tap, then the hip rotates with reference to the location of the pitch, ie inside pitch will be more rotation as opposed to something away where would ideally rotate at contact to the opposite field gap.

Originally Posted by Wellphyt

The best explanation by a long shot, that I have ever read on weight shift comes from Williams. This is where I disagree with Ripkin. The weight shift according to Williams is done entirely with the coil-uncoil, back-and-forth action of the hips. Any transfer of weight from one foot to the other is the result of the hitter trying to balance and not fall down.

"BOGGS: Cock your leg. Where's your weight going?

WILLIAMS: Which way am I shifting my weight?

MATTINGLY: I think you're shifting it back.

WILLIAMS: Only because it's the only way I can stand."


More Quotes:

"MATTINGLY: All good hitters shift their weight. I can't believe they don't. Show me how you get back.

WILLIAMS: I'm doing it with my hips."


More Quotes:

WILLIAMS: Did you think I transferred weight?

GAMMONS: As you start your swing, you cock your front leg, and at the point of contact you're coming up off your back foot ever so slightly. That's a shift.

WILLIAMS: That's a hard thing not to do. It's a very little weight shift, more of an unwinding of the hips. A weight shift upsets balance.


More Quotes:

"MATTINGLY: Didn't you shift weight when you hit?

WILLIAMS: I'm going to ask you what your definition of shifting weight is.

MATTINGLY: The transfer of weight.

WILLIAMS: Where to where?

MATTINGLY: From anywhere—from where the head is to six, eight inches.

BOGGS: All right, let's put it in boxing theory. If a boxer hits you, is he going to generate more power from here [indicates a long punch] or more power from here [short punch].

WILLIAMS: He'll generate more power if he doesn't do a thing, then goes umph with his hips."


These exchanges between Williams, Boggs, Mattingly and Gammons, combined with "TSOH" is the best information I have ever read on the subject of weight shift.

Interestingly, Mattingly, like Ripkin Jr, seems to think that the weight shift is a back and forth linear movement. It sounds to me as if these hitters have no idea that they hip cock. In the Ripkin video he clearly turns his hips back and coils, but he doesn't describe it that way. I don't think he even feels the hip coil. Instead, what he likely feels is his weight shifting back onto his back foot so he can balance. That's what he feels so that's what he describes.

Ted understood that the weight shifting back onto the back foot was for balance purposes and was not how hitters shifted their weight. He knew that the real weight shift was done with the back and forth action of the hips.

I know, I know...Ted didn't really know what he was talking about because he didn't own a lap top. Ted's 4700 plus MLB at bats are no match for the modern day laptop and video analysis software in the hands of twenty something year old kids and pool hall owners, who never had one swing in MLB.

Wellphyt ... isn't it true that Ted was already 'balanced' prior to his weight shift?