I need some fresh eyes to look at my DD's swing

Just a couple of quick thoughts. There is some hip glide in this swing. The front heel is dropping and at that point lateral movement should be done, but she is still moving forward.

The tee is too far out front; it should be about even with the stride foot for a down the middle pitch (where I think it is set up). She has wrapped the bat around her head, and has too much separation. She has walked away from her hands a bit too far.

Regarding the lower body. She opens up the stride foot too far and loses hip rotation. What happens is her hips get a little ahead of her rear elbow, so she never establishes connection. By the bat lag position her elbow gets ahead of the hip, but the hip stops and the swing becomes almost all arms.

Quick fixes.
1) Move the tee back. See how deep you can move it back where she can still hit the ball up the middle.
2) Deltoid drills.
3) Stride on the inside edge of the front foot. Don't do the ballerina tip toe, it is too easy to over spin.

p.s.
Oh yeah, always (always always) look ahead when doing tee work as if you were looking at an imaginary pitcher. Look down and find the ball after toe touch. This kind of vision training is important.

Is that a 34 inch CF4?

Anyway, a batter needs to be able to get the hips turned and not commit to the swing. Her shoulders, trunk and hips are turning as one. She can't hold up w/o being called for a strike. It might help her to look in a mirror and have the hips initiate the swing. Isolate the hips.

Is she seeing a hitting coach? Good luck. I hope that she does well at tryouts.

theaddition said:

This is typical of your BS posts lately.
Very O'Leary like.
Offer some meaningful advice on how to improve her swing.
It's not enough to look at at a clip, as you so often do, and say she is doing this, this and that wrong.
Tells us how she should fix it.
I am starting to see what Richie over at HI was talking about with regards to you.
Just stick to posting video clips, Pal.

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Sorry you feel that way. Do feel free to hang with Richie.

Not to make excuses ... but I'm somewhat short on time ... and I'm hesitant to get involved in a detailed Internet fix with someone that may have other ideas.

Contrary to what one poster said above, I don't view this as a good swing. I see this swing as semi-related to a chicken-wing like swing. Way too tense in the arms, not establishing a true 'stretch', and therefore not being able to establish connection.

It isn't rocket science. A good Coil-Stretch-Swing sequence would address this issue. The kid uses her lower body improperly, doesn't establish a decent stretch, and therefore can't use her hips to properly initiate her swing. Her hips do not grab her hands ... her hip action does not lower her rear shoulder ... her hips do nothing with the stretch, because she never created a true stretch to begin with.

lhowser, is this the same hitter?

lhowser, is this the same hitter?

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Yes...I was surprised because I don't remember where that clip came from...many of the same issues though.

Her hips do not grab her hands ... her hip action does not lower her rear shoulder ... her hips do nothing with the stretch, because she never created a true stretch to begin with.

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B-I-N-G-O. Now help me put this together. Obviously she swings with intent and you can see when the ball is front tossed she doesn't wrap as much but there are some real connection issues I have here that she/we need to understand. I see em...just not sure specifically the key moment downstream that will create a change upstream.

Ihowser, your dd’s upper body mechanics resemble a PCR-like “maintain the box” mechanic, with so much pre-set tension in the arms that the upper body takes over and a chicken wing is the result.

Here is an older swing. As you can see, she’s had this “chicken wing” issue for a while now … and it is part of her connection issue.




The lower body of her current swing almost seems to resemble an anti-move move, with the result being limited extraction of ground reaction forces. There is no coil. Instead there is a fake forward knee pinch. The lower body load is poor … resembling ‘sway’.



The sync of the upper & lower body is in need of being smoothed out and corrected.

What you have here is an issue with the upper body, and issue with the lower body, and an issue with the sync of the upper & lower body.

My concern is that you are looking for a quick adjustment with plenty of payback. Swing development is more of a “process”.

Are there things we could do immediately?

Sure …

Relax the arms … relax the arms A LOT!!!

Destroy the box. Do not attempt to “maintain the box” until swing initiation. In addition to zero thought of “maintaining the box” until swing initiation … consider dropping that notion completely and simply learn a swing sequence that has the body “connecting” at swing initiation, then there won’t be any need to tighten up the arms to the degree that exists now … and the arms can remain relaxed up until swing initiation … because not only is that their job, but you won’t have purposely given them the wrong job of tensing up.

Do not initiate the swing with the arms, but with the hips. To accomplish that you must first develop lower body mechanics that are good enough to be worthy of connecting to. You must also develop a “Stretch” that facilitates “connection”.

Establish a true “Stretch” … do so with the lead arm relaxed … put the rear arm in charge of developing the stretch … feel the stretch develop along the rear lat area and extending to the upper back muscles.

While learning to “Stretch”, with a relaxed lead arm, … work on developing a slight lead shoulder down & in motion. This will set her up nicely to automatically ‘connect’ at swing initiation.

Learn to use the ground effectively. Learn “the move”. Lose the lead knee action thingie that she’s currently doing, which is a fake way of generating the rear knee down & in action, and replace that with the ‘uncoil’ of the ‘rear leg’ portion of “the move”. Put the rear leg in charge of the lower body … and when you do this it will be the “uncoil of the rear leg” that pulls down the rear shoulder leading to ‘lateral tilt’ at swing initiation … assuming you’ve learned the “Stretch”. Learn to power the initiation of the “up through” action of the lead shoulder with the rear hip pulling down the rear shoulder … again, assuming that the “Stretch” is in place.

That’s about it … fix the lower body, fix the upper body, place the rear leg in charge of the lower body (i.e., the train always leaves the station) and then learn to have the hips, not the arms, but the hips, initiate bringing the hands forward.

Is this a minor change? No … but it’s the direction I’d take a student if they came to me with a swing like this. I’d correct the lower body first. In conjunction with that I’d begin teaching the sequence of “Coil-Stretch-Swing” … and IMO there is no “coil” in the current swing, “the move” is not present, there is not a “slow & fluid gathering of energy preparing to explode”, and any resemblance of “Stretch” is lost by the pre-set tension in the arms.

The good news is that this isn’t something out of the ordinary. People end up putting things together and ending up with a swing that ends up in a state like this all the time. This is extremely common … and it’s correctable. Just treat the process as a journey and don’t sweat it.

Is that a 34 inch CF4?

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33/23 Pheonix

a batter needs to be able to get the hips turned and not commit to the swing. Her shoulders, trunk and hips are turning as one. She can't hold up w/o being called for a strike. It might help her to look in a mirror and have the hips initiate the swing. Isolate the hips.

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Yes...this seems to be poking around the core issue I am seeing which FFS and a few others are seeing.

Is she seeing a hitting coach?

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That would be me. To many goofy suggestions out there from people who say they are 'hitting coaches". I see it all the time. There is no objective standard out there for "hitting coach' or "pitching coach". It's kind of like setting a few gnomes in the yard and getting a sign that says "Professional Psychic". I am always open to a good coach but I've been less than impressed with a lot of what I have seen compared to what I know so I am not willing to let someone take the wheel unless they are turning out some high level hitters with nice before and after shots.

Destroy the box. Do not attempt to “maintain the box” until swing initiation.

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This has been a big challenge. the box goes way back and I havn't been able to create a picture to help change this. your suggestions on this and the other issues are helpful and thought provoking.

lhowser said:

This has been a big challenge. the box goes way back and I havn't been able to create a picture to help change this. your suggestions on this and the other issues are helpful and thought provoking.

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This is important. We must relax the arms if we are going to make headway.

Fortunately I've developed a few approaches that have worked to destroy the box .... and yet lead to a connected swing.

If the goal is a "connected swing", then you actually want the opposite of what your daughter is currently doing. We need the arms to be relaxed.

Here's the thing ... if the arms are tight, as is common when many players attempt to "maintain a box" AND if they have an objective of hitting the ball hard ... not uncommon an objective ... then the muscles in the arms will contract and chicken wing through impact.

So let me talk you though a sequence of warm-up drills I use to help folks that power the swing with their arms, learn to instead relax their arms and power the swing with their hips & lower body.

The objective here is to get the arms RELAXED.

To get there we do some EASY practice swings. These are "dry swings". We do not use a ball .... because once you introduce a ball you get kids trying to KILL it ... and we need to head in the other direction at first to get the arms RELAXED.

First series of swings consists of half swings ... that is swings that start at 'launch' and finish pointed towards the 'pitcher'. These are "slow" and "easy" and "relaxed" swings. The goal is to let the "barrel" stretch out the arms. Repeat several times ... start at 'launch' and stop with the barrel extended to the 'pitcher'. Allow the turning of the barrel to stretch out the arms. When you stop with the barrel pointing to the pitcher both arms should be stretched out. Again, the goal is to RELAX the arms. The barrel will feel heavy because your arms are so relaxed. Simply start your swing though a power-vee and allow the rotation of the barrel to extend your arms as the barrel points towards the pitcher.

Next series of swings are 3/4 swings. That is, "slow", "relaxed" swings that start at "launch" and finish 270-degrees ... towards your back shoulder. Same as the first series of relaxation swings, but allowing the barrel to continue further ... a 3/4 swing. Get the feel of allowing the barrel to stretch out the arms.

Assuming that the arms are now relaxed, the hitter is now "ready to hit with their lower body".

The next step is performing actual "dry swings". Why dry swings? Because if you give the student a ball they will try to KILL it, and in the process will tense up their arms. So you perform dry swings, without a ball to KILL, and with a continued emphasis of keeping the arms relaxed.

Still not done.

We next place a ball on a tee ... but we tell the hitter to hit it easy, at about 50% ... and to hit using their lower body as the power source ... WITH THEIR ARMS REMAINING RELAXED.

After a few of these swings, simply ask if your student is ready to hit the ball harder .... they will almost always say "yes". Fine ... but the way they hit the ball harder is by using their lower body more. Simply tell them to turn their belly button faster ... bring the lower body up to say 65-70%. Then when warmed up at this speed, bring the lower body up to 80% ... AGAIN, always keeping the arms relaxed.

They are learning to hit the ball harder using their lower body and keeping their arms RELAXED.

As your daughter continues to make swings ... have her put her hands on the shelf (that's the "Stretch") with RELAXED arms ... especially with a RELAXED lead arm. Very important. The rear arm should be in charge of placing the hands on the shelf ... the lead arm will be very relaxed as the "hands are placed on the shelf". Right now your daughter's lead arm is WAY TOO TIGHT. Having the lead arm relaxed will lead to the front shoulder lowering some ... about 1" to 3" ... you want this ... something your daughter isn't currently doing.

Having the rear arm place the "hands on the shelf" will build a stretch along the backside lat (muscle area between the back hip and back shoulder) and up through to the upper back ... sort of like the "stretch" you would get if drawing back a bow ... as in a "bow and arrow". You want this stretch ... within the sequence of Coil-Stretch-Swing. This 'stretch' is important for getting the hips to grab the hands.

Let's continue.

We instruct the hitter to place the hands on the shelf with "relaxed arms" ... the lead arm is especially relaxed. The lead arm will even 'stretch out', or 'extend' ... and this is referred to as "early lead arm extension" (ELAE). This ELAE will occur not because the lead arm is pushing back, but because the lead arm is relaxed and allowing the rear arm to place the hands on the shelf. The observation of ELAE, while placing the hands on the shelf with the rear arm, is feedback that the "box has been destroyed" ... or at least feedback that the "box" was not formed too early so as to inhibit the swing as it currently inhibits your daughter's swing. ...... That is, the lead arm will extend some and not restrict placing the hands on the shelf while building the stretch. Currently your daughter's lead arm does not stretch .... it is too tight ... and it is negatively impacting the swing in a major way. We then take the hands off the shelf with the hips ... or the uncoiling of the rear leg, once your daughter learns "the move".

We place the hands in the same spot on the shelf every time. We place them on the shelf with relaxed arms, and allow the hips to pull them off. Now for a bit more precise action ..... if the "stretch" was indeed formed, then it will be the hips, or uncoiling of the rear leg, that will cause the rear shoulder to lower and yield "lateral tilt" ... again, something that currently isn't in your daughter's current swing.

Piece of cake right? Hmmm ... let's say a few things tend to creep up, but I generally deal with them and get back on track without a glitch.

So the job is to relax the arms ... and I recommend going through the arm relaxation drills I mentioned ... warming up to swing using the lower body ... and using the analogy of placing the hands on the shelf with relaxed arms, and having the hips take the hands off the shelf .... NOT the arms taking the hands off the shelf, but the hips taking the hands off of the shelf.

There is more ... but it's nearing 2am. See if you can make headway with this .... work with it and let me know.

There is more ... but it's nearing 2am. See if you can make headway with this .... work with it and let me know.

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Goodnight...that is very good and I appreciate the geniune thought and input. Brought a bat to the office today so I will work through the suggestions and then talk with DD. Thanks.