11yo swing analysis

whatsup said:

Just a couple observations as I try to digest the comments/suggestions given so far:

I find it interesting, having now watched lots of swing videos, that many (certainly not all) females seem to utilize a wider stance than their male counterparts. To the point that their knees are further outside their hips for much longer and, in many cases, at the point of contact, the rear hip is well ahead of the rear knee.

The suggestions given to widen the stance appear to be critical to limiting lateral movement when unweighting the front foot. Likewise, having the weight more on the toes, and lifting the front leg heel first while flexing the front knee, marching band style, as opposed to rocking sideways and lifting the whole foot seems to be important.

Still working on a way to exaggerate the feeling of rear hip loading. Best I've come up with is to stand on the back leg with the knee flexed. Then, keeping the back knee flexed, move the heel of the front foot to the front of the back knee.

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WU ... since you are working on this part of the swing, let's briefly review the "preset screw-in" that accompanies "The Move".

What is "The Move"? For now, just consider it the 'explosion', the 'uncoiling' or 'thrusting' action as you initiate your swing.

Right now you are working on your daughter's coil ... so let's add the "preset screw-in".

As your daughter does this she may find an advantage to having a somewhat wider stance. Have her experiment with that as well ... and find a stance that works well with what I'm about to describe.

The reason it is referred to as a "pre-set" action is because the batter takes care of this almost as soon as they step in the box. They screw-in with their rear leg, and then pretty much forget about it. That is, once "screwed-in", they can go about their normal business ... which will become "seeing the ball and executing".

So let's try to describe this "screw-in" ... this "screwing into the ground".

Basically, for a right-handed hitter we want the rear foot to have a pressure on the inside half of the foot, and towards the ball of their rear foot, such that there is a "pressure sensation" to have the rear foot turn "clock-wise" (not "counter-clockwise" as many folks believe). At the same time the toes of the rear foot are curled upwards, and this will tend to create a balance that gently has the rear heel come into contact with the ground. With the hitter having the pressure sensation of the rear foot "clockwise" (NOT counter-clockwise), they are screwed in.

From a screwed in position it's just a matter of "coil" into the rear hip ... and this is followed by "uncoil" ... as a hitter will often have a sensation of either "coiling" or "uncoiling". Having the rear foot "screwed in" will serve to promote resistance to the "coil", and help promote a healthy "uncoil". This is the "feeling" or "action" that some attribute to opposing the "coil" ... or some even refer to as a directional movement opposing "coil".

What you don't want to do is shift squarely back towards the catcher as you load. That is wrong IMO ... that leads to a momentum based swing ... not what we are looking for at the higher levels. What the "pre-set screw-in" will do is preset how the hitter moves into their rear leg. The lateral move back will become more of a coiling or hip cock. The lateral move will still serve as means of "gathering energy", but it will now have a rotational element to it ... especially from a 'feel' perspective.

Many folks see the rear foot turnover ... eversion ... and get confused ... they believe there should be active "internal rotation" at the start. The turn over of the rear foot will occur, not because of active internal rotation at the initiation of the lower body, but because the rear hip will end up pulling, or forcing, the rear foot turnover. For now, don't worry about this. From what I can see, this isn't an issue with your daughter. Just focus on the "pre-set screw-in" for now.

You'll find that the "screw-in" will result in the rear leg becoming firmer and providing more support. This in turn will allow the hips and torso to better power the swing, allowing the rear leg to now serve as more of a solid platform for the hips and torso to work against.

For now ... experiment with a "clockwise pre-set screw-in". You may find that a slightly wider stance helps. Experiment with that as well.

So the sequence I'm asking you to test out is ...

1) "Screw-in" ... this applies a 'rotational' pressure in the direction of "uncoil". For a right-handed hitter the pressure sensation would have the rear foot turning "clockwise". This pressure sensation, or application of force, will exist even though there is no rotational movement taking place within the stance. The batter will have a sense, or feeling, of maintaining this clockwise pressure sensation all the way to 'contact'.

2) "Coil" ... the "coil" will be in a direction virtually opposite the direction of the "screw in" ... the "screw in" will tend to resist coiling. The two forces are in different rotational directions ... in a sense you can think of 'dynamic' balance being maintained. Continue to NOT use the upper body to "coil". The hands pretty much stay quiet during this phase.

3) ""Stretch"". Now you can cock the hands and load the barrel as you arrive at your launch position.

4) "Uncoil" ... You may have a feeling of either 'coiling' or 'uncoiling' ... or better yet, of coiling, stretching, and uncoiling. The force application established by the "screw in" is still present and will be accentuated along with the "uncoiling" action ... they will combine to yield an 'explosion' if you will. Technically, this "unload" is what "The Move" actually is.

Below is a video in which "The Move", along with the "pre-set screw-in", is described from a golfing perspective. Try to ignore the camera man who is a bit annoying.



As LC recently told me ... the "screw-in" is critical, if not vital.

Here is what Hank Aaron said in his book:

Coiled Spring:

"The reason you pivot your hips, shoulders, arms and hands backward as you prepare to swing is based on the same principle as that of a coiled spring. Wind it up correctly and it can be released with lightening power."

"The pitch is on it's way. You've made your stride and coiled your power rearward. It looks as if the pitch is in your strike zone and you've decided to swing at it. You uncoil your power. Your hips begin opening toward the pitcher, as you push off your rear foot; your shoulders open and your arms and hands spring forward, drawn by your hips."



"The hips and hands cock as you move your lead foot to stride, the front knee turning in to help the hips rotate back. You are cocking your hips as you stride, and it's so important to get that right.

It's a pendulum action. A metronome - move and countermove. You might not have realized it, but you throw a ball that way. You swing a golf club that way, you cast a fishing rod that way. You don't start back there. And you don't "start" your swing with your hips cocked."

Ted Williams

In another post I mentioned a pitcher who pre-set what is being called the screw-in. I have footage on another computer and someone posted Koufax talking about it in a book. He desribed it as everyone has to achieve it so why not just start in that position.

I think you can make it to extreme (as with any info), although it doesn't hurt to play with the idea.

Shawn said:

In another post I mentioned a pitcher who pre-set what is being called the screw-in. I have footage on another computer and someone posted Koufax talking about it in a book. He desribed it as everyone has to achieve it so why not just start in that position.

I think you can make it to extreme (as with any info), although it doesn't hurt to play with the idea.

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Good stuff Shawn. If you come across that post, or the info that Kaufax was talking about, then that would be great.

I would also be very interested in any information coming from a pitcher regarding a pre-set screw in of the back foot. I don't play golf, so I prefer to use the overhand throw as a way to help kids get the correct feel for various hitting movements.

Wellphyt,

That was so many years ago that there is no way to find the thread.

Here is something that eludes to the discussion. Just a small part of information along the lines of the discussion.

Setting up the rotation

Additional research from ASMI presented in February at the American Physical Therapy Association’s Combined Sections Meeting suggests that, as with a golf swing, range of motion in the lower body may be as important to pitching as strength or power. Investigators measured passive ROM at the hips and shoulders in 43 major league pitchers from the Tampa Bay Rays’ organization during spring training and found that hip external rotation on the dominant side (ipsilateral to the pitching arm) correlated with shoulder internal rotation on the same side, suggesting that the ability to externally rotate the hip allows for more power generation, which carries over into the shoulder motion and theoretically results in greater ball velocity.

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Wellphyt said:

I would also be very interested in any information coming from a pitcher regarding a pre-set screw in of the back foot. I don't play golf, so I prefer to use the overhand throw as a way to help kids get the correct feel for various hitting movements.

Click to expand...

Wellphyt ... I don't play golf either, but I can't ignore the heavier amount of detailed analysis that has gone into the sport. May be that the game of golf has been around for over 400 years, versus just over 100 years for baseball. May also have something to do with the type of people drawn to the sport. I don't really know ... but in any regard, there is a lot of good information that is well described from a golf perspective ... much of which can be applied to softball/baseball. As always ... apply the Hanson Principle.

Was feeling well enough to take some swings again today so here's her normal swing with the tee lowered and out front as requested:

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WU ... good to see your daughter back to making swings again.



Unfortunately her swing is back to being out of sequence. She is in a sense, "Stretching to Coil" ...



Her swing sequence was much better in the swing below ...



I was hoping to see her using this swing sequence along with the lower tee.

However ... you did state that she performed her 'normal' swing ... and we did learn what we needed to learn. I will follow up shortly with why I asked for a swing performed on a lower tee.