Thread: Softball Swing vs. Baseball Swing - 2

Thanks boardmember. How about some of your thoughts on adjustment for location/speed ?

No Epstein questions ?

One thing you might consider about Epstein's so-caled deficiency in teaching weight shift/getting off the backside.

Wha if you tried the Epstein approach and you followed his directions uop to a point, so, for example, you would learn to wind the rubberband (open the front leg and hips, not "rotate" them because "Rotation" as Boardmember thinks of it here - doesn;t happen until the "GO" or what Epstein calls "drop and tilt") striding to balance at toe touch with the foot slightly open, BUT

then at that point you did not understand the Epsein description to "laterally TILT" the shoulders, but had the mstaken impression that you were supposed to TURN the shoulders like heck ?

This would cause a problem, becasue when you get to this poit and then try to ATIEVLY TURN the shoulders, this will force the weight back to front and force LUNGING.

You will then have to compensate by back side collapse/not getting off back side.

That's the problem I have seen in tose who think the Epstein approach leads to back side spin/collpse.

When he says tilt the shoulders, he means it.

No Tom..........thx again......

However, I would like to point out that while Epstein has some subtle deficiencies, or what might be considered incomplete explainations in his stuff, he is ALL ABOUT connected rotation.

His drills are set up for "TURN LIKE HELL with the torso/shoulder complex" sequences....

If you like the "tilt then turn" stuff, fine, but ignoring the turn like hell part of the his sequences makes you a little transperant......

I'm surprised you're so "on board" with his stuff.........

Originally Posted by tom.guerry

No Epstein questions ?

One thing you might consider about Epstein's so-caled deficiency in teaching weight shift/getting off the backside.

Wha if you tried the Epstein approach and you followed his directions uop to a point, so, for example, you would learn to wind the rubberband (open the front leg and hips, not "rotate" them because "Rotation" as Boardmember thinks of it here - doesn;t happen until the "GO" or what Epstein calls "drop and tilt") striding to balance at toe touch with the foot slightly open, BUT

then at that point you did not understand the Epsein description to "laterally TILT" the shoulders, but had the mstaken impression that you were supposed to TURN the shoulders like heck ?

This would cause a problem, becasue when you get to this poit and then try to ATIEVLY TURN the shoulders, this will force the weight back to front and force LUNGING.

You will then have to compensate by back side collapse/not getting off back side.

That's the problem I have seen in tose who think the Epstein approach leads to back side spin/collpse.

When he says tilt the shoulders, he means it.

Boardmember -

His turn like heck is bottom up hip turn/snap, not turning scap complex etc.

Sort of like your walnut cracking which requires los of early upper body resistance like circling your arm the other way in windmill pitching.

Completely different just like 2 and 1 plane golf sequence differs.

tom.querry just a quick question are you a certified epstein instructor?

Originally Posted by kls_hittingacademy

tom.querry just a quick question are you a certified epstein instructor?

Well........no he isn't. But Tom will always be the FIRST to tell you what everyone means.........

He is however, a certified pontificator...........

i am not certified, only certifiable.

I did spend a night in the local holiday inn once.

Boardmember, recently you have shown some clips of soriano from open side at BBF. Look at those carefully and see if you can see the
tilt not turn of the shoulders.


Epstein certified includes "Cally Jr', see BBF or Sparky Parker (website).

Or go to horses mouth at Epstein support forum/archives.

Originally Posted by tom.guerry

Boardmember, recently you have shown some clips of soriano from open side at BBF. Look at those carefully and see if you can see the tilt not turn of the shoulders.

Tom, I don't have the overwhelming need to be unique that you, and say Rich do........

It's ok with me that I see rotation not tilt.........It is a tilted rotation of course:



I'm also not confused by the action you see as "tilting" before the rotation occurs. The shoulder complex, while connected, is NOT rigidly connected across the complex.

In order to set up a "down to up" pattern, as the backside initiates the "down" sequence, the front side, through the connected parts of the complex, will respond in kind with a slight upward move. It has no choice.

The difference between you can I is that I know it has to happen. You on the other hand, think it's a controlled movement by the hitter. It isn't. It's a reaction to setting up and launching the proper plane and sequence, that is rotation of the top side on a tilted plane:



So the bottom line is "tilt" happens naturally. Rotation is caused by the hitter unloading the top side.

And so again, being unique is just not important enough to me to try and convince people that the clip of Sorano on the left, ISN'T ROTATION............It's only tilt, according to your need to be unique..........

Boardmember said:

The difference between you can I is that I know it has to happen. You on the other hand, think it's a controlled movement by the hitter.
Actually, what I think is thatif you position and sequence yourself right early when the swing is slow and easy, then the rest of the swing is likely to unfold well and through practice becaomes automated.

So if you don't load the front shoulder down and in, you won't be able to tilt it later.

if you don't understand you need to torque the handle early, you won't.

If you do understand you have to torque the handle, you will use rhythmic preswing activity and a grip that enables torquing.

You will have good posture and hip cock so lower body can synch it's support of upper body well.

You will understand overall that you can torque the handle without unhinging the lead wrist early.

You will understand you can hit from the top to increase/better control load/coil rather than cast/"rush".


Just as in golf, you can get in good positions tat make a good result likely or you can not worry about t and depend on your athleticism to bail you out. Error goes up in the second case and that type of error can get too high quickly in hitting where reaction time is limited.

Here is another nice video by Mankin to show how PLT and THT are applied early without involving premature unhinging/opening of the angle of the lead wrist.

http://www.batspeed.com/media/PLT_THT_Mechanics.wmv

early batspeed.