Step by step approach to fixing bat drag

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Mar 3, 2010
10
0
I've seen a few drills for fixing bat drag and have tried them with some success and some not so successful. I feel like it is a grab bag approach right now. I would like to hear some thoughts about a beginning to end process for fixing bat drag. What would start with and what progressions would you make?
 
R

RayR

Guest
Classic bat drag where as the back elbow gets ahead of the hands is caused by the player trying to line up the barrel with the ball as a first move. As opposed to swinging the bat in an angular plane to the ground.

Stop them from dropping the barrel and bat drag starts to disapppear. The player has to trust that they can still hit the ball without lining the bat up and has to focus on breaking the habit of dropping the barrel. This takes time, but is really the heart of the matter.
 
Jan 14, 2009
1,591
0
Atlanta, Georgia
I agree with MTS's observation that lining up the barrel with the ball is a common cause of bat drag. The easiest way to see this is to watch the hitter's hands during the pitch. The hands will always drop prior to swing initiation. Hitter's that do this have a swing that looks like the letter "L". The other tip off are the kid's parents and coaches who are always yelling at the player to stop dropping their hands.

What is the easiest way to prevent a player from dropping their hands?

Teach them how to tuck their rear elbow by externally rotating the upper arm. It's impossible to drop the hands when you tuck the rear elbow using this method.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
What is the easiest way to prevent a player from dropping their hands?

Teach them how to tuck their rear elbow by externally rotating the upper arm. It's impossible to drop the hands when you tuck the rear elbow using this method.

Good question.

IMO the answer begins slightly earlier in the sequence ... as in how one arrives in their launch position. If they internally rotate their rear upper arm (humerus) as they abduct it (i.e., as they move it away from the center-line of their body), while pinching their rear scap ... then they will be setup to succeed and they will be able to initiate the swing with external rotation of the rear upper arm.

Telling someone NOT to drop their hands is often ineffective. Much better than instructing what "NOT to do", is to instruct "WHAT to do". The hands do have a job ... and shortly after the external rotation of the rear humerus begins, will come an 'action' that assists in the 'connection' of the hands/barrel to the torso ... and that will be an application of a force by the rear forearm/hand in the direction that would encourage supination (swivel) of the rear forearm/hand ... as in applying an orthogonal force to the barrel, to "turn" the barrel, rather than "push" or "pull" the barrel.

Ssarge is on the money when he speaks of kids needing to learn to break away from making armsy swings and instead learn to swing with their body ... or make a 'connected' swing.

Back to the rear scap 'pinch'.... During your setup for your launch, you abduct, while internally rotating the rear upper arm, and pinch the rear scap ... then, as your swing is launched, you will attempt to maintain the 'pinch' of the rear scap going into the 'turning of the corner' ... and this maintaining of the pinch will help you remain connected. The maintaining of the pinch will help avoid the desire to 'push' with the hands and 'disconnect' the arms from the torso. The maintaining of the pinch will result in a tight HPP (Hand Pivot Point). You will be swinging with a "tight HPP" versus swinging with your 'arms' ... or as Ssarge states you will be swinging with your 'body' versus swinging with your 'arms'.

This is important ... you want 'connected' swings .... it is the difference between making consistent solid contact, and not making consistent solid contact. You want to promote making 'connected' swings ... not swings with the 'arms', but swings with the 'body' / 'tight HPP'.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2009
3,345
48
Good question.

IMO the answer begins slightly earlier in the sequence ... as in how one arrives in their launch position. If they internally rotate their rear upper arm (humerus) as they abduct it (i.e., as they move it away from the center-line of their body), while pinching their rear scap ... then they will be setup to succeed and they will be able to initiate the swing with external rotation of the rear upper arm.

Telling someone NOT to drop their hands is often ineffective. Much better than instructing what "NOT to do", is to instruct "WHAT to do". The hands do have a job ... and shortly after the external rotation of the rear humerus begins, will come an 'action' that assists in the 'connection' of the hands/barrel to the torso ... and that will be an application of a force by the rear forearm/hand in the direction that would encourage supination (swivel) of the rear forearm/hand ... as in applying an orthogonal force to the barrel, to "turn" the barrel, rather than "push" or "pull" the barrel.

Ssarge is on the money when he speaks of kids needing to learn to break away from making armsy swings and instead learn to swing with their body ... or make a 'connected' swing.

Back to the rear scap 'pinch'.... During your setup for your launch, you abduct, while internally rotating the rear upper arm, and pinch the rear scap ... then, as your swing is launched, you will attempt to maintain the 'pinch' of the rear scap going into the 'turning of the corner' ... and this maintaining of the pinch will help you remain connected. The maintaining of the pinch will help avoid the desire to 'push' with the hands and 'disconnect' the arms from the torso. The maintaining of the pinch will result in a tight HPP (Hand Pivot Point). You will be swinging with a "tight HPP" versus swinging with your 'arms' ... or as Ssarge states you will be swinging with your 'body' versus swinging with your 'arms'.

This is important ... you want 'connected' swings .... it is the difference between making consistent solid contact, and not making consistent solid contact. You want to promote making 'connected' swings ... not swings with the 'arms', but swings with the 'body' / 'tight HPP'.

EXACTLY what I needed to read!! It's funny how you hear something but you don't REALLY hear it ... and then you do! THANKS, FFS!!
 
May 7, 2008
977
0
San Rafael, Ca
Epstein bat on deltoid progression is very effective and simple.

It works well with the if you can throw you can hit, teaching throw and swing together approach.

When you learn to throw in the high level pattern, you learn to shift weight back to front.

The early and middle parts of the throw are like the swing, but NOT then end of the motion.

In the swing the weight goes back to middle to up with center staying behind front foot.

So if you work on Epstein progression when you are learning the arm action and weight shift of the overhand throw, the bat on deltoid and torque and drop and tilt drills ("numbers drills") teach you to swing with elimination of LUNGING (stop the weight from getting to front/over/past front foot) AND the feel of keeping the back scap pinched which is necessary for staying connected and a good "release" action in the swing.

In the throw, the scaps symmetrically UNPINCH to finish forming the "arm loop" (finish laying backEXternally rotating the throwing arm) and finish spine "arch" (extension) triggering "bow" (flexion) of spine which whips the arm loop.

The best throwing references for understanding this are the Hodge BIOMECHANICBASEBALL info and the Nyman THROWING FOR DUMMIES ebook. Wolforth 's pitchingcentral and bootcamps have a comprehensive throwing program.

The spine action in the Nyman buggy whip/high level pattern is bow-arch-bow. This is like the action of the handle of the whip which drives the cord/loop of the whip (arm loop). As Wolforth further describes, there is also a bow-arch (pinch-unpinch) of the scaps whic h leads him to describe the motion as "double bow-arch-bow".

The swing by comparison is just "bow-arch" with rear scap staying pinched.

In the HLBB swing, the rear scap stays pinched until contact/release/terminal velocity/escape velocity of bathead. The FRONT scap works Asymmetrically (as part of the different back and forth rhythm of the swing initiated by "rhythmic preswing activity" (a Lau Sr, "absolute"). The front scap can pinch on apporach to contact as an inside adjustment ewhile back scap remains pinched (pinch across back of torso).

You swing like you throw, up to a point, that point being GO.

Trying to unpinch/release the back scap or swing the scaps around the torso will ruin the swing pattern.

The best description of this HLBB swing is at H-I.com.
 
R

RayR

Guest
TomG,

How important is the connection point that Slaught refers to - to get to where the hands, rear elbow and pant stripe are pretty much lined up. This in keeping with rear scap needing to stay pinched to this point.

I see a lot of swings that get cut off early that show the hands in front of the rear elbow at connection. And swings that drag when the elbow beats the hands to connection.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
Just an FYI ... but many hitting systems see value in getting the swing to pass through the position shown below.

2zpnwat.jpg


RVP refers to this as the "Connection Point".

Jack Mankin refers to this as the "Power V".

HI refers to this as the "Swearing-In Position"

Tom Emanski refers to this as the "Explosion Point".

Chris Yeager refers to this with a cue ... "Down Through The Nipple".

Mike Epstein refers to this as the "Torque Position".

Bottom-line ... getting a student to pass through this position is a commonality amongst a host of hitting systems.
 
R

RayR

Guest
I agree - which then begs the question of why this isn't priority before moving on to something else. Seems like we all try to make this much harder then it needs to be. This position in itself promotes a fuller follow through and quicker swing. Getting to this position requires the bat head to stay above the hands. The lower body will accomodate this action.
 

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