Can we improve teaching mechanics at younger ages to reduce/prevent DBSF?

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SB45

Dad, Coach, Chauffeur
Sep 2, 2016
150
28
Western NY
I spend a lot of time with younger hitters trying to correct DBSF and often DBSU (I may have made that up)...dropping the hands and dragging the bat through the zone flat or coming up. I see this as a side effect of slow pitching, the batters desire to get moving, an effort to get the bat on plane with the ball... So, a lot of time is spent trying to correct this and work it out of muscle memory. Also have the opportunity to work with kids that are 7, 8, 9...I'm wondering if we (our program) could be doing a better job of teaching hitting in a way that would cut down on this type of swing. For example...we allow variety in striding...but we teach going to toe touch early, prior to deciding whether or not to finish the swing. (As opposed to no stride or striding with their swing) I'm thinking the problem is that we don't have a good way to teach young kids to maintain load and small movement to give them the ability to adjust to the pitch speed. We get them started early (at least they are not late) but then they have to wait to finish the swing...giving them lots of time to drop their hands before attacking the ball. This is a very simplistic approach...but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for young kids to stride with their swing (after deciding to swing)...seems like this would be less likely to allow DBSF. And maybe later on work on how to create a swing that is more adjustable to speed?? I'm not saying this is an answer...just thinking that a discussion on preventing the disease might cut down on having to treat it later.
 

rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
This is a very simplistic approach...but I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for young kids to stride with their swing (after deciding to swing)...seems like this would be less likely to allow DBSF.

stride with their swing (after deciding to swing
Short answer.....NO.
Posadasidebyside.gif


Not a take but,
Bonds5c1.gif

Bonds could have.....
 

SB45

Dad, Coach, Chauffeur
Sep 2, 2016
150
28
Western NY
Appreciate the response, not sure I agree. This is just what is swirling around my brain this morning...I'm thinking that 8 year olds being taught to get that stride out there early (on time)...and are having balls lobbed to them...get that foot on the ground but don't have the stretching mechanism to maintain a good launch position. So...they get the foot on the ground and start the rest of their swing...by dropping their hands down until the ball gets there. So what this would suggest is that we need to do a better job of teaching the gather/coil/load/stretch...but we've broken the swing down into pieces to teach it...maybe beginners aren't ready to comprehend that part. Maybe I'm selling them short. Working with a bunch of 12-14 year olds that drop their hands...I'm thinking not just about correcting that but going back in time to prevent it. If they were taught to swing in a more fully connected way...they wouldn't learn to adjust to speed as well...but maybe they would have better mechanics in other areas. Not sure the comparison to MLBers is completely relative.
 

rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
Not sure the comparison to MLBers is completely relative.
Posadasidebyside.gif

OK. You didn't notice the MLB striding on both pitches. If he was doing what you want to teach he want not have a stride on the take. He would have waited until he 'decided' to swing. I'm guessing that would be wayyy to late. I think the gif is relative. You might want to take another look.

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for young kids to stride with their swing (after deciding to swing)...
Let me know how that works out for your hitters when the pitchers get faster....and they will.
.I'm thinking that 8 year olds being taught to get that stride out there early (on time)...
Early is not on time. What not teach the correct swing sequence so, your hitters don't have to re-learn the correct sequence. I don't believe in Band-Aids.
 

SB45

Dad, Coach, Chauffeur
Sep 2, 2016
150
28
Western NY
I appreciate the dialog, really do. And I get the videos and why you selected those particular examples. As for relativity...do you have video from when these guys were 7 or 8 maybe they dropped their hands something awful.
 

rdbass

It wasn't me.
Jun 5, 2010
9,131
83
Not here.
I appreciate the dialog, really do.
Really...I'm guessing you don't.
do you have video from when these guys were 7 or 8 maybe they dropped their hands something awful
How would that be relative. There a 100's of examples of hitters 7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17,18 & 19 'dropping their hands and DBSF on this site and numerous others if you need to look at them. Me, I would want to see, copy, & teach what the best hitters in the world are doing and not a swing that will need to be re-taught as the hitter gets older. Coach for the next level not a band-aid for the current level.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
For young hitters with significant hand-drop issues, I have seen some success in getting them to rest the the bat on their shoulder until it's time to launch, using the hands to turn the barrel to the ball. This concept can get over-cooked and lead to issues with "dead hands", or an "over-connected" swing, but it can be a useful tool in getting them familiar with the feeling of launching the bat from a position near the shoulder instead of dropping or pushing rearward with their hands (both issues my DD had, which still show up on occasion). I see this as a stepping stone away from DBSF and towards a better movement pattern.
 

SB45

Dad, Coach, Chauffeur
Sep 2, 2016
150
28
Western NY
Thanks Eric, I have done the swinging from the shoulder and I do like that for some for sure. And thank you RD, I do appreciate the dialog and I did take something positive from each of your posts. It's funny how quickly things get contentious on here. My post was meant to be introspective...what could we be doing better to avoid DBSF in the first place...and I get your answer...teach good mechanics from the beginning. No doubt a side-effect of trying to break down a connected, fluid process into building block pieces...is creating a swing that is a series of not always well connected building blocks. (this is just how it has been taught...not saying I agree with that approach)...so I'm thinking that this building block approach is creating opportunities for bad habits like DBSF to flourish. And like I commented earlier...this probably suggests our biggest weakness in the approach is finding an effective way to teach the no-no-no-no-YES part of the swing...as clearly laid out in the Bonds image.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
First, you can teach all the building block drills etc. that you want but that doesn't mean that what the player demonstrates is what you taught. I like breaking the drills down to their elements so that those "segments" of the swing can be isolated. IMO, there are different kinds of "command drills" out there that would address this. I posted an example in the one recent thread I started a few months ago where we use the Stay Back Tee. I think that the term "building blocks" means different things to different people. There are basic elements of a swing that I want to teach all of my hitters. I think of them in terms of building blocks. When put together in their basic element, I believe a basic swing can be developed that has been referred to as a "fall back swing." My dd used that all of her life. One noticeable difference would be the fall back to basic with a no stride. Then, whenever she felt her swing was not in a good place, she went back to the "fall back swing" and then built her swing back.
 
Jan 4, 2012
3,852
38
OH-IO
Need better Ques ???

<video width="512" height="100%" controls loop video controls autoplay>
<source src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/58923514/Resent/1-KYEOB_HB.mp4" />
</video>
 

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