Thread: DD is dropping hands first

Counting frames is a good check. After all, it's about being quick from decision to contact and the proof is in the pudding. Looking right only counts if you really are quick.

Looking right being right. That would apparently be a matter of opinion since different people see different things looking at the same video. I suggest checking frames is a good way to see if one really knows what one is looking at.

The shift as the pelvis rotates as Dixon talked about in his seminal work "The Exceptional Athlete" sometimes called forward by turning. The shoulders and bat do NOT start forward till the front hip joint quits moving forward usually about heel plant.

Forward by turning. Photo 11 of 31, Analysis

Hands stay back till heel plant. http://home.mindspring.com/~rmk/griffey_ken.mpeg

I was answering your assertion that ML hitters swing as they shift. As you can see by the Griffey clip the shoulders and bat do not start rotating till right at heel drop when the front hip joint STOPS shifting. The Soriano clip illustrates that what is rotating during the shift is the pelvis. And while she doesn't do as good a job of turning forward momentum into rotation as Soriano or that much seen Derek Lee clip she does a better job of it than you give her credit for IMO.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

They shift as they swing.
.

Hips do go before hands and shoulders. I would call the swing as beginning when the bat begins to swing. They do not swing their hips. They shift and rotate their hips.

The video shows the hips are rotating/unloading as the pelvis moves forward during the stride/shift. Then at heel drop the front leg very quickly stabilizes the front hip joint while the back hip joint continues forward by rotation. About heel plant the torso connects the pelvis rotation to shoulder rotation and shoulder rotation is connected VERY well to the hands which begin pulling the bat around. After 2-3 frames depending on total swing quickness the bathead begins to fly out much as the strings on a weed eater fly out. This is the whip of PCRW when the axis of rotation changes from around the torso to near the hands and bathead speed spikes hopefully timed to make contact with the ball coordinated with this whip somewhere around the front leg.

I do appreciate the mostly cordial collegial nature of the discussion and hope we can keep that tone. It's been a pleasure.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

In terms of 'action' or 'energy production' or 'launch' or 'what the hitter actually does when'....the swing is over before the front leg firms up. The front leg firming is important.....it makes sure the rotation continues....and that the energy doesn't bleed forward linearly. So, it is important. But the swing is over.....before the front foot is weighted.....again....in terms of what the hitter actually does and when he does it.

I'm not really sure what you are saying here but I will try to keep in mind you refer to the swing starting when?

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

The swing is launched from the rear foot/leg/hip load....the launch shifts the weight to the front leg which firms and ensures continued rotation.

Again, same as above.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

At the same time of the rear foot/leg/hip unload/launch is the hand pivot/throw.

I have no idea what you are looking at when you say this.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

Just like a pitchers final rear foot/leg/hip launch move occurs as his arm unloads. They are synced together. They happened suddenly....together.

So the hip finishes rotating on a bb pitcher about the time the foot turns over as a result of hip rotation. Now how are you relating this to what in the swing?

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

I hope I can pitch to your team waiting for the bat to 'flyout' like a weedeater. Not only will they be late....they will lack swing quickness.....they will not be able to direct the barrel accurately to the ball.

Again, I have no idea what you are looking at in video. When I look at the Griffey video clip I see approximately the same angle between the bottom hand forearm two frames into shoulder rotation as I see the instant before shoulder rotation launch.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

I can't imagine not using the hands to direct the barrel to the ball. Are you saying things just line up.....on their own.....to a 95mph fastball.....and/or a 75mph offspeed pitch?

You really aren't saying that are you

Assuming the hitter isn't fooled, I'm saying exactly that. Have you read Adair?

See the first eight or so clips here. Analysis

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

I have never seen a fastpitch player I would use as a model.

Might be out there.....I just haven't seen it.

Your telling me that Crystal Bustos doesnt have a MLB swing? This is a lady who cranked a softball in excess of 450 feet just a few weeks ago in OKC.

If that isnt MLB caliber then someone needs to define it for me.

Elliott.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

I guess you're going to have to reread. I can't say it any clearer.

Or ask more specific questions.

Basically....as you pick up your lead foot to stride...you load up the rear leg/hip and then push from the rear foot and hip to unload the rear hip before the lead foot is down. This unload will put the lead foot down....which firms up and ensures there is no forward slide...that rotation continues.

At the same time the lower body unloads....the hands throw the barrel around the pivot.

Both unloads are together. The great hitters are very good at the syncing of these unloads.

Just like in pitching. The unload of the lower body puts the foot down. The arm unloads in sync with the lower body unload.

I think I've shown with video of Griffey that you are wrong.

Originally Posted by TheMagicMove

Sure enough....I went deeper into that sigy site and there she is.

YES that is high level.

Watch her and see if you don't see the swing putting the front foot down.

Actually....to be more accurate.....she launches the swing....from the rear hip/leg.........which is exposed due to the front hip clearing....and this launch
'weights' the front foot. The weight is shifted AT launch....not before.

At the same time as the above described lower body launch occurs....she clearly throws or pivots the bat in the hands. You can see speed in the 3rd dimension.

YEP....they ALL should imitate her.

But not Rivera

It's got a little Bagwell in that swing. Your terminology is still strange to me but the shoulders start rotating about foot plant. The hips shift forward while rotating as described by Dixon, Nyman and Englishbey among others. The bat doesn't pivot in the hands early in the swing. The shift/forward by turning/pelvic carry plants the front heel.