Thread: Rotational Hitting

Doc,

your core and shoulders load together with your legs.

Sure, in a vertical loading sort of thing, I agree with you.

As your stride foot walks away from your body your weight and your hands stay back

Riding the back leg would seem more appropriate to me.

Upon toe touch the back foot, knee and hip begin to unload with the hands staying back in a true scapular loaded position,

If you are waiting until toe touch to rotate, you'll be late to the party. IOW, you don't shift weight forward, then rotate. Have you heard of the concept of "forward by turning?" I'm beginning to wonder. I'm with you on the scap loading part.

Once the legs and hips decelerate to the angle of contact point the core muscles that have been stretched along with the tricep of the front arm contract driving the hands towards the plane of the ball.

If you're talking about "stretch reflex" or X-factor stretch, I'm with you.

I don't know why you make an innane comment about the hips slowing down, as if you just scored some kind of point. Of course the hips decelerate at contact...but they do lead the way, DOC.

You seem to be mixing swing truisms with fallacy. You're probably all for the fish shaped hook resulting in a back slapping follow through, too...right?

Mike

Originally Posted by Slapper23

Doc,
Riding the back leg would seem more appropriate to me.

In a Jim Dixon sense, yeah.

Originally Posted by Slapper23

If you are waiting until toe touch to rotate, you'll be late to the party.

Depends if we are talking about rotating the shoulders or rotating the hips.

Originally Posted by Slapper23

IOW, you don't shift weight forward, then rotate. Have you heard of the concept of "forward by turning?" I'm beginning to wonder. I'm with you on the scap loading part

Why Mike, sometimes lately you sound positively Nymanish-Dixonish.

Slapper23 I don't make these statements thats what I'm trying to explain thats what countless scientists and great players have seen and discussed over the last 20 years. We are talking about the feedback from players and science. Torque is not involved,loading the upper body back at the same time your lower body begins rotation is not the seperation you want it creates a circular long bat path. The fish hook bat path is the exact opposite path of what you are thinking.The hook part starts once the hands get in front of the back hip and the bat head comes around and snaps on a line matching the plane of the ball until it comes off plane with full extention and release.

MikeH just a question,when you look at the swings on that olympic swing web site don't you see the back heel come up before hip turn?

What I hear you saying is Epstein's counter rotation is a bad idea and holding the hinge angle with good connected rotation creates a whip through the contact area?

Whoops, I was answering the previous post of yours. I'll get to the latter one next. Could you pick out a particular clip to discuss?

I'm sorry Mark H, question 1.Yes and make sure backside is driving behind it. Question 2 look at any but Smith is easy to see.

Doc,

I'm talking about looking at most any video of a ML hitter. Let's check out my favorite - Albert Pujols. See what you see. And yes, I'm talking about loading the upper torso - not by counter rotation - but by scap loading while the hips (Mark) rotate into toe touch. Not sure why you think I'm talking about a sweeping swing. Are you talking about a hands to the ball swing, you know, where they do drills like hitting a baseball/softball off a tee with the knob of the bat??

I would tend to see the fish hook bat path moreso on an inside pitch, not so much on outside pitches. And what countless scientists and players are you talking about?

I'll answer this ahead of Mark and he can comment, but your question to him about seeing the back heel come up before hip turn (in your opinion) is a result of the hips beginning rotation - beginning to rotate into toe touch (forward by turning). Are you in to the squish the bug stuff?


Mark,
There are elements of Dixon/Nyman I believe in, such as forward by turning. As I said, we probably agree on more than we disagree, o' buddy.

Mike

Got to go to Houston right now. Don't let me forget to get back to this.

Front toe touch must happen before rotation can happen. Front heel plant must then happen, at the same time the back heel drives towards contact so the legs and core can connect.Yes the hips get ahead of the hands but the hips have to decelerate to let the hands whip. Thats why when you break down video you can see hips stop and torso whip around.The coaches like Candrea,Eriksen Olympics,Dayett,Vavera MLB, A-Rod,Gwynn,Mauer MLB players,Mendoza,Jung,Freed Softball players and DeRenne Medlock seience just to name a few love this stuff. I think when you have played at that level their feedback is alot better than theory,its proven.