Thread: Rotational Hitting

I've asked alot of the college coaches in the Houston area as well as nationally and they have never heard of Englishbey.Howard Dobson is from the area and he has never seen or heard of any kids he's worked,he was the hitting coach at Houston and Oklahoma and those teams hit.Who has Englishbey worked with?

Originally Posted by Hit Dr.24

That is not what I am saying... but you have to have practical knowledge along with video knowledge to be able to teach it effectively. If you do not have the practical knowledge, you need to talk with or gain knowledge from the top athletes before you refute it.

Doc,

I have been swinging a bat since I was six. Now 52 and still swinging a bat. You do the math. Have pretty much seen it all and I didnt get any of it from a top athlete. Just because you have played the game and have been exposed to it at a high level doesnt mean your good at teaching it at a high level.

I have learned from 40 plus years of experience that wasnt at a high level and that doesnt mean I cant teach a swing that is high level. There are a lot of people like me teaching and their students excel at EVERY level both male and female. Not just in MLB. There are guys in the MLB who are lucky to stay a few points above the Mendoza (Not sure on the spelling of that one) line every year. Yet they play at a high level and never get it. No matter who their instructor is at that high level. But when they are done the resume says "Played MLB" on it.

There there are those who say what they do but when you watch them on video, as Mark suggest, they are not even close to what they thought they did when they took a cut and described it. It was their version of what they thought they did with a bat. And from their perspective it was the truth. When viewed in slow motion it wasnt reality. Have seen this with a number of MLB hitters.

Williams said it wasnt his hands that made him a great hitter as many said about him, it was his hips. At least he got one right. It is about the hips and the core. Not the legs and the arms.

Elliott.

Originally Posted by Hit Dr.24

I've asked alot of the college coaches in the Houston area as well as nationally and they have never heard of Englishbey.Howard Dobson is from the area and he has never seen or heard of any kids he's worked,he was the hitting coach at Houston and Oklahoma and those teams hit.Who has Englishbey worked with?

Now that's a long subject. How should one evaluate instructors. Steve is very careful about claiming a student. Even when a student gives him credit for improved performance he won't accept credit unless he knows how and what the hitter has worked on and sees what the hitter is doing now in games. On the other hand, a certain college team known for their power bought one of a certain well known instructor's tapes. Said instructor then claimed credit for the college team's hitting power on his website. When I talked to the college coach about it, coach said no, we didn't use it. Steve has spent time on the field with hitters and coaches of top programs but you won't see him talking about it on his website. He talks about the information, what elite hitters do, his thoughts on it, motor learning ideas etc. He has an active website where you can read his stuff and others questions and comments along with video clips of kids new to his ideas as well as more advanced hitters working on his ideas.

I would think that students of hitting would study everyone's material and then develop their own ideas. I know that I do. To say that someone that teaches hitting in Houston has never heard of Englishbey, tells me that that person isn't trying to improve his or her knowledge.

Just read a thread on Steve's site and had a thought I wanted to add here. You know the instructor that impresses me? The average parent who knows little but studies the subject, puts his kid's swing up on Steve's site or any site. Takes criticism and suggestions, and then later puts his kid's latest efforts up on the same thread or site and you know what? The kid has implemented a bunch of the suggestions and the kid is BETTER. Measurably in terms of quickness as well as in terms of closer to resembling elite hitters. THAT dad or mom is the instructor I take my hat off to. Not to denigrate the professional but they are supposed to be good at what they do. This parent producing obvious results as an amateur who has more passion to help their kid than anyone in the world, jumping into something brand new and succeeding-that's worth a standing ovation in my book.

Did'nt mean to make people mad, just trying to get some background info on someone. I see that Doran guy has softball camp in New Lenox Il. July 14-16 with Larry Ray,Arizona Angel Santiago,UNLV and Amanda Freed so if you're in that area check it out and let us know.

First post...great site!!

I have been reading over this "Rotational Hitting" post the last few days with alot of interest. My DD plays on a 12U traveling ball team and uses the Epstein hitting method, with good results, especially compared to the linear way she was originally taught by her first instructor. She has a good eye and I admit she consistently made contact with the linear approach, but she rarely "drove" the ball and was hitting alot of ground balls. Nothing wrong with ground balls, but we both realized with her strength, size and fact she is no speed demon, she needed to be able to drive the ball into the gaps at times. As she got older and defenses improved, she would not be as succussful without being able to keep the defense honest.

With some of the comments I have read on Epstein, I was hoping I could get a bit more elaboration. Everyone on here has some great points on hitting and I am not questioning, just curious as to what brought some of you to the conclusions you made.

I saw that it was mentioned several times that Epstein was great for young hitters, but the issues below which eventually arise...

Mark H - an "unnecessary ceiling"
Slapper 23 - Epstein has "holes"
Hit Dr. 24 - Epstein has "false movements"

Just looking for specifics...mostly from curiosity. I played baseball and softball (Slow Pitch) since I was 5, but I realize I am in no way an adequate gauge on how to teach the right swing. I just always swung....HA!

I only mention the above posters because each stood out in my mind. You all make great points. But I agree that we each have to use every resource and study to learn so we can truly evaluate what works.

Thanks everyone!!

Originally Posted by Mark H

Just read a thread on Steve's site and had a thought I wanted to add here. You know the instructor that impresses me? The average parent who knows little but studies the subject, puts his kid's swing up on Steve's site or any site. Takes criticism and suggestions, and then later puts his kid's latest efforts up on the same thread or site and you know what? The kid has implemented a bunch of the suggestions and the kid is BETTER. Measurably in terms of quickness as well as in terms of closer to resembling elite hitters. THAT dad or mom is the instructor I take my hat off to. Not to denigrate the professional but they are supposed to be good at what they do. This parent producing obvious results as an amateur who has more passion to help their kid than anyone in the world, jumping into something brand new and succeeding-that's worth a standing ovation in my book.

That's the place that I'm trying to get to I know I have a ways to go still, though. At least I'm going to start a lot better with my 2 year old DD (if she loves ball as much as my 13 year old does).



David, I'm far from an expert, but the 2 things that I can think of right off with Epstein that I don't agree with are "counter-rotation" (winding the rubber band) and his weight distribution (weight on back foot at contact).

Also, if I remember correctly, some of the swings of kids that I have seen attributed to his teaching (I think from his website, not sure....) seem like they have a slight "outside-in swing" tendency and bat drag, but I could be confused about where I saw those clips, I've looked at quite a bit of stuff over the last 8ish months

Hi David May,

Glad to hear your dd's travel team has had such good results. When your team learned the Epstein Hitting System did they have Epstein Certified instructors or did the Coach go off of his videos?

Just Curious,

Pops

The issue that I have with Epstein is that I have worked with several players from professional baseball that worked with him and he promised them they'd have more power and be better hitters and their batting averages dropped dramatically and their strike outs increases dramatically. He was also fired from every hitting coach position he ever had in professional baseball. I also look at a lot of video of elite hitters through many vehicles and his examples never match the examples of great hitters. His examples don't even match Ted Williams.