Stretch & Fire Success!

Steve Huff said:

Please help me out here. If the whip is behind, which is what I thought everyone was saying, I can see how this swing can work in HS ball, or 16U perhaps. But help me out as expectations at higher levels. Why? Well if your bat barrel is moving behind the rear leg, and the bat barrel is arcing as shown above, then how does this work with moving pitches, or changes of speed. The barrel is committed earlier. The barrel isn't whipped until the hands move forward of the hip in what straightleg, Howard, or what I teach. The load is maintained until that point since the barrel IDEALLY, doesn't leave connection with the shoulder to that point. So how will this play out on moving pitches and change-ups?

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Great post Steve.

The barrel isn't whipped until the hands move forward of the hip in what straightleg, Howard, or what I teach

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Steve Huff said:

Please help me out here. If the whip is behind, which is what I thought everyone was saying, I can see how this swing can work in HS ball, or 16U perhaps. But help me out as expectations at higher levels. Why? Well if your bat barrel is moving behind the rear leg, and the bat barrel is arcing as shown above, then how does this work with moving pitches, or changes of speed. The barrel is committed earlier. The barrel isn't whipped until the hands move forward of the hip in what straightleg, Howard, or what I teach. The load is maintained until that point since the barrel IDEALLY, doesn't leave connection with the shoulder to that point. So how will this play out on moving pitches and change-ups?

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Steve, have you seen the Model Swings thread posted to the top of this forum? There are many hitters over the course of those 55 pages who use the mechanics you're questioning. How do you reconcile what they're able to do against the level of pitching they're seeing? I'm asking because I see the mechanics of stretch & fire, including rearward barrel launch, and they're hitting and making great contact (many extra-base hits and home runs) against pitchers who throw moving pitches, changeups, etc. I'm curious why they are able to do it.

I'm learning about the differences between these mechanics styles, and I'm trying to see how each side sees the differences in relation to hitter results. Thanks.

Steve,

Let me try to explain this as I see it and correct me if I'm misinterpreting you. What I hear you saying is that your batspeed is out front where as what I'm talking about is early batspeed. The way I've always explained to Brooke is, you need the running start to give your barrel some early batspeed without committing and if you decide that the pitch is something you want to drive then the hands are activated and the barrel is thrown around the corner which created the whip. What you are describing IMO is a heavy push swing but I might be misunderstanding you. All I do know is Brooke can catch up to the hard stuff and hit the change-up/ movement.

Yo cranker! Your message box is full.

Chris O'Leary said:

Never trust a theory of hitting that is based on a single clip, especially when we know that the context behind that clip was to bait the pitcher.

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I can't count the number of times I have said this here. The swing has no context until you see the pitch location.

How does staying short to the ball and snf relate?
Ive always thought the stretch was simply getting the hands pulled all the way back during the positive move, but these video clips of mts with toes pointed at the pitcher or performing one leg swings have left me with more questions than answers...

Steve Huff said:

I can't count the number of times I have said this here. The swing has no context until you see the pitch location.

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How many different sets of swing mechanics do you teach?

crankermo said:

Steve,

Let me try to explain this as I see it and correct me if I'm misinterpreting you. What I hear you saying is that your batspeed is out front where as what I'm talking about is early batspeed. The way I've always explained to Brooke is, you need the running start to give your barrel some early batspeed without committing and if you decide that the pitch is something you want to drive then the hands are activated and the barrel is thrown around the corner which created the whip. What you are describing IMO is a heavy push swing but I might be misunderstanding you. All I do know is Brooke can catch up to the hard stuff and hit the change-up/ movement.

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By hand-push, no unless you mean in front of the hip, after connection at the hip. Or you could call the the beginning of extension. I actually have no problem with Brooke or Olivia's swings. I love 'em, love the bat speed. Brooke is slightly quicker, and she has been focused on it longer, but I think they will end up very similar. What I will tell you is that what I see is some "casting". What is casting and the difference with sweeping? Sweeping is like a dragging straight arm swing with "drag" as they say. Casting is the projection of the hands and bat out away from the shoulder to get behind a pitch that is on the outer-half. It doesn't hurt hitting that pitch, but on the outside edge, I don't think it is a positive. The ball must be hit deeper. And he is the irony of my debates with Teacherman. If you hit it deeper, and you are driving it to right-center, how are you squared behind the ball? You can't be. You are hitting the ball at an angle, slightly on the inside edge. If you were squared behind the ball, it would go toward center.

Now let me ask you a simple question. It is physics. Why do balls pulled down the left field line hook, and balls hit down the right-field line slice? It is not just an inside out swing. That is hitting without "authority". You can crush the ball and it will wrap around the foul poll. Either poll you hit it to. This is what troubles people like Chris O'Leary and I. This is so fundamental that it defies logical dismissiveness. And then the individual derides Chris and I saying, My first offering....Steve Huff and Chris O'Leary are clueless....TOTALLY. NEITHER have ever swung a bat to duplicate movements. Teacherman doesn't know this because I don't think I ever posted there. But I joined his site last winter, not under Steve Huff, before I left for Europe.

So God Made Steve Huff....
Teacherman, Yesterday at 11:36 AM (66 Views)

God knew there were only so many spots on big league rosters. God knew there were only so many good softball teams. God knew he had to limit the number of players good enough to play at a high level.

So God made Steve Huff....and Chris Yeager (the quack)....and Paul Nyman....and Steve Englishbey....and Howard....and on and on and on.

Just a little humor boys and girls. True humor.

Steve, I honestly can't envision you in a debate with Teacherman. It would be ugly. Butt ugly.

redhotcoach said:

How many different sets of swing mechanics do you teach?

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One! But the swing dynamics change with pitch location. You are trying to put the sweet spot of the head of the bat on the ball. You are trying to keep your hands inside the ball. Those two goals change the swing dynamics a little. So does hitting an inside pitch out in front and hitting an outside pitch deeper. That changes the swing dynamics. The swing sequence stays the same, even on outside pitches. But the change in orientation forces an release further to the rear or behind the hip. The rotation is just shorter. Remember when I talked about getting fooled on a swing and it makes a difference in bat arc or swing path if you prefer. Look at this screw-ball and what happens. Out-front?