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RayR

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Salright....

Feet point forward for the running slap or the video you linked to? I think the running slap is part 2.....SnF is part 1.....

Left foot is on toe for balance only - no weight in SnF. You should go to HI for more details on the accurate instruction.

In the clip below - she needs to bend at the hip joints more so she can look down and not see her leg/foot. This will increase the coil around her rear leg/hip. Also - she needs to turn the barrel sooner - her initial move is a pull of the bat straight down....her rear upper arm externally rotates to start the swing - I want her elbow connected to the barrel so if her rear elbow moves - the bat turns rearward...

RD - you can link to use clip -

KRSnF1-20-13G.gif


Also, note the right foot....the coil is turning is out....she is not twisting her foot...sneaker on bare floor...

Sorry, I don't know how that happened just copied/pasted. Should my DD's both feet point forward?
 
Last edited:
Aug 29, 2011
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Dallas, TX
First let me say look at Kemp's eyes. He hit the ball to Right-Center. He almost hit it on the very tip of the bat. That is why it was hit behind his front foot. Secondly there is nothing new or relevant in that swing. But you seem to think the bat head path is somehow "considered" as a function behind the back. Tell me how many kids can KNOW what a bat head is doing behind their back? How about what their back foot did? Those things are learned through muscle memory because kids do not have conscious competence for those issues ever! The learning phases are such: Unconscious Incompetence (bad habits) to Conscious Incompetence (awareness of shortcomings) to Conscious Competence (awareness of new skill) to Unconscious Competence (good habits without conscious effort). The bat head path is made through "Connection" at the hip, and how you handle your wrists. The back elbow moves down, that is why the bat tilts backward. If a batter rotates strongly, fully, and earlier the hands will move forward more. A batter that would look more like this idea you espouse would be Tyler Colvin of Colorado. He has poor backside rotation, and his bat head path is very much behind him. He struggles on inside heat! Another batter with the same condition was Hee Seop Choi of Florida. Same kind of bat path. So I don't think about what is taking place with the tip of the bat unless it takes a bad path. And as far as I am concerned, that path or plane should rather mirror what the shoulders are doing. A late or incomplete rotation will make that swing more "loopy". Good rotation makes the swing path flat, not down then out, then up or whatever, but quick to the ball. I watched a Mike Epstein video last night to see if I could find anyone teaching something similar. Nope! And I had heard of people mentioning his videos here before. So I looked at 3 or 4. I am a disciple of his theories. I agree with his claims and issues.

Now lets be clear about something. There are NO revelations in those .gifs. When you hit a pitch away, or drive it away, or think it is away, and you hit it deep, the bat head path will exceed the depth of the rear foot. It is a natural occurrence. It is caused by the rear shoulder staying further back at contact, and the core orientation toward RF. I am not confused by any of this. I just don't see anything new. The only thing I disagree on is not practicing isolation drills, or hitting deep, it is hitting a ball deep that is inside, unless you are trying to inside out the pitch I think as Hamilton did in an earlier .gif, in which case the hands have to get ahead of the ball and you maintain bat lag. The other issue is focusing on something behind you when it is the hands and wrists that determine what the bat head does, not the bat head. That is easier to have cognitive awareness of.
 
Last edited:
Aug 29, 2011
1,114
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Dallas, TX
"Watch the back arm and barrel - they move at the same time as if their is a steel rod connecting his elbow to the barrel tip "

Very true. But that perspective also changes when the barrel is held in different positions. You advocated I think earlier or was it someone else who said the barrel should be almost straight up and down? That will provide this perspective. Now place the barrel at a 25 degree angle over the shoulder and see what you get? The path and perspective will be different.

As a footnote, most of you know of Nancy Evans. I was at Nationals in '93. She was pitching for Gordon's Panthers against a team in the semi's that was taught to hold their bats straight up and down like that. I really didn't like their coach. I was coaching college and summer ball. I also had a similar team one year in the first college game of the season. I told Nancy's mom to tell her "rise-balls and change-ups, nothing else in the zone". I told her mom because I knew her, and I wasn't Nancy's coach. They got two fly balls out of the infield and I think 1 infield single. The same thing with the team from Southern Utah University. They got 1 hit and both pitchers only threw 2 types of pitches. If you are going to hand a pitcher a weakness, take advantage of it.

His hands are not moving rearward. There is a fulcrum point between his hands. As one turns under, and forward the other moves back. And again, there is nothing new here. It is a low pitch. The hand path changes.
 
Last edited:
Aug 29, 2011
1,114
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Dallas, TX
Yes indeed, and doesn't this become somewhat picturesquely similar to a golf swing? As I stated before, His core orientation is to Right Field! That creates that long backward behind the body swing appearance. Hit a fastball on the inside corner and see how different it will look. There is nothing new here.
 
Aug 29, 2011
1,114
0
Dallas, TX

Three very different looking swings. The last two are bat angles and hand positions more conducive to fastpitch. That gives the appearance of following the shoulder more than a high bat angle like Kemp.

There is something here that I think is a learning point that anyone can see in a pitch similar to what I have described as heat inside. What do the hands do. Is the bat head dropped back as MTS describes? Well in fact, to pull the ball with authority, the axiom that Connection is with the hand and elbow stacked has to be modified. The hands have to bet ahead of the elbow at the hip or connection point. Otherwise the swing would allow contact out front enough to pull the ball. The batter would get handcuffed, and he would hit the ball on the handle if at all. This is Dan Vogelsbach, the no. 8 First Base prospect, and probably the no. 1 hitting prospect for 1st baseman right now in the minors. How much does the bat head launch backward? It is all about where you are going to hit the dang ball. It is about bat angle. It is about where your hands need to be, not where the tip of your bat needs to be. There is nothing new here! There are two gifs.

http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/archives/tag/dan-vogelbach-gif

Vogelbach Animated GIF | Baseball GIFs - GIFSoup.com

rdbass, I think you can see in the Votto gif the same point! his hands beat the back elbow to the connection point. And there is very little bat head flip rearward because he is pulling the ball.
 

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Last edited:
Aug 29, 2011
1,114
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Dallas, TX
Do you mean gifs which I loaded above, or full speed?

Watch which gets to the pant seam first, the hands or the elbow? That is an advanced adjustment in an A ball player.
 

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