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Aug 29, 2011
1,114
0
Dallas, TX
Steve,

I happen to agree that the hand path will change a little based off the location of the pitch, IMO it has to. The idea is to to throw the barrel, not the hands at the ball. I've seen several ELITE hitters change their hand path to hit pitches and the common factor in them is they do what they need to in order to square up the ball. That's why you have to have great hands to be to be a great hitter IMO.

I also agree with you that you don't teach every kid the same. For example just look at Brooke's bat angle, it's relatively flat compared to most hitters. We tried using the conventional 45' but she was one of the "weird" ones that it didn't feel natural to her and it robbed her of some power and control, that's just her personal preference. You can't conform your DD to every standard rule, their has to be some personal preferences in everybody's swing.

As for turning the barrel analogy, I personally believe it bigtime. IMO it creates live and active hands and I really think that is one the biggest things being miss taught nowadays, people are so caught up in the rotational aspect of the swing. It may sound stupid but I used this que with Brooke, you use your hands to write with, if you use your arms/shoulders to control your pen your writing is going to be terrible, your bat is your pen write with it, control it. The way I taught it to Brooke is your are just trying to get the barrel behind the ball to give you a longer hitting zone. The old shirt to long through. Ive never told her to take the catchers mask off, if you are doing that your swing is going to be wide and slow.

Brooke is 5'9" and around 150#. We try to hit every night and she works out with a fantastic personal trainer 3x a week for an hr each session. She's a very driven young lady and has had the dream of playing bigtime D1 and hopefully the WCWS.

I agree and like everything you said, but the "turning the barrel" issue bothers me. pstein said it is dropping the barrel angle. What has changed? We always called that flattening the barrel. Even baseball players generally do it. Some don't! I have a video here of Brett Jackson, formerly top prospect of the Cubs. He goes from 25 degrees up to vertical, and loads actually in front of his face, bat overhead cocked toward 2nd base. Comes down and turns a corner over and through the strike zone. They said they changed his swing, but did not say how. Wanna bet? I try to start girls at about 25 degrees and hope it sticks, but some it doesn't.

Yes, look at Mendoza and Bustos. They don't have a big bat wrap.
No, no, I can see Brooke's swing. It isn't a rearward reach. That was only a suggestion about the wall drill, that it prevents that. I have only seen one gif where there is a reach back, and that was Jeter. But I don't know if it is common for him. I hate the Yankees. Brooke is a really good looking athlete. Like Olivia, she has some good fast-twitch muscles. Also like Olivia, her swing is way ahead of the pack. Like I said before, I looked at 500-700 recruiting videos every year. Some I watched for 2 minutes, some all the way through. It doesn't take long to see what you are going to see. I don't know what either girls defense looks like, but you can assume a few things by the way they do other tasks. I don't know her age either or year in school. But I would consider them both in the top 1-2% of videos we received. There are plenty of DI girls who come in with fairly flawed swings, even from teams like the So. Cal Batbusters and other top programs. Take heart! So what do you know about your SAT's and the NCAA Clearinghouse?

Brett Jackson, CF, Chicago Cubs Prospect - YouTube
 
Aug 29, 2011
1,114
0
Dallas, TX
Steve, I don't think I said foul balls - I said sliced contact as opposed to squaring up balls....it is exactly what Crankermo is referring to when he talks about how the ball sounds off the bat when Brooke hits....

Cabrera is squaring up this ball because his bat was launched early and when you adjust your body knows what it needs to do....like the hands slowing down just enough so the barrel can get to the ball on time....when you promote connection you lose this ability to square up balls because you place the shoulders in control....

Cabrera_ALCS2011_3_2B_side_slo.gif

Actually I think your words were, you will hit foul balls into the 1B dugout. Because I said you don't get square behind the ball, (so to speak, but that is from the linear direction of the ball. The batter's swing is square behind the ball, but the inside edge, a few degrees off center), but hit the inside edge. You took it literally. Not the side of the ball.

Now I would ask anyone, is Cabrera reaching in this gif? Look how far his extension is at contact, and look at where his extension ends up pointing too? Right center field, as I have said before when I asked you that question. Look at the angle of his bat. It is about 12 degrees in ahead of his hands, as I have said repeatedly before, which is in the optimal power width or band of that wrist break. There is no difference in what I am saying, and his contact, except that he is reaching.

If you had listened carefully, I said two things which support this early launch notion. First I said repeatedly that hitting an outside pitch requires the bat head release to be back behind the hip creating the illusion of a different bat arc to the ball. Look at the back elbow at the hip and where are his hands? They have already released. The bat head is coming around early. Secondly, I said that it is necessary to release early to hit an outside pitch because the rotation of the core is limited to about 50% or 45 degrees or a little more. There is no slice because the barrel is in front of the hands, or it WOULD BE a foul ball. Because the barrel is in front of the hands, if you froze it, and continued to rotate square to the pitcher, it would look just like hitting up the middle. Nothing has changed but the core orientation.

He is fooled on the pitch! One more thing. When your extension ends out there over the plate, you may have started getting behind the ball early, which we both agree on, but what happens to the bat head after that extension? Wrists roll and the bat starts its climb back up at an angle to the front shoulder. Hitting deeper is good, which Cabrera didn't do here, and it is what we both preach! Another little bit and Cabrera would have beaten the ball in the dirt to the SS!
 
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Aug 29, 2011
1,114
0
Dallas, TX
Steve,
That's where you maybe "wrong"? I am trying to help you out. So is everyone else. Carry on.
Crankermo, good post and thanks for sharing your journey.

Ha! I meant support my view. I never have any bones to pick with you. Even if you disagreed I wouldn't have any.
 
Feb 14, 2010
592
18
Steve,

I think you are very a very smart hitting guy obviously or you wouldn't have the resume that you do. The turning the barrel debate right now might just be a verbage miscommunication, does hand pivot point sound more reasonable to you? As for Brooke she is a sophomore in HS and a catcher by trade. Her OH throwing velocity is a consistent 65 with a high of 69 clocked by D1 schools. Her pop times are in the 1.7-1.8 range. She's scheduled for her first ACT saturday.
 
Jul 10, 2008
380
18
Central PA
No, no, I can see Brooke's swing. It isn't a rearward reach. That was only a suggestion about the wall drill, that it prevents that.

I've thought this for a while as I've been reading over this thread, is it possible that when MTS says "rearward launch," SteveHuff is confusing this with dropping the barrel straight back toward the backstop? The bolded statement about the wall drill makes me think this is what he is thinking. If the barrel was dropped so it was facing toward the backstop, I would use the wall drill to correct this (because when you drop your bat head toward the backstop you create an unhinged top-hand wrist which causes an extended top arm, which causes sweeping). That's not what I understand MTS to be saying about "rearward launch." To me, I've been interpreting "rearward launch" as the barrel going behind the hitter (pointing toward the 3B coach for a RH hitter) while beginning to uncoil from the resistance in the hips up through the torso.

None of MTS's gifs show the barrel pointing backwards to where the wall drill would be necessary. Barrel still stays deep and inside the ball in the gifs where the hitter isn't fooled. Thoughts?
 
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Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
Right now i use both the hitters box, and turning the barrel, in tee work. i teach opptimum contact, middle in, with a good hitters box set.

I like the way it teachs proper contact, with a good hand swivel release to extension. It is used with the deltoid drill. It is combined with turning the barrel, The box as i said before is adjustable, for outside pitches, low outside pitches are part of the all the work. Let it get deep, extend to right.
Kids have no trouble, with the outside, they cast naturely, its the front elbow , staying inside , not wrapping, that is the focus for me.

I am just starting with turning the barrel, one girl so far has said she likes that cue.
 
Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
Steve,

I think you are very a very smart hitting guy obviously or you wouldn't have the resume that you do. The turning the barrel debate right now might just be a verbage miscommunication, does hand pivot point sound more reasonable to you? As for Brooke she is a sophomore in HS and a catcher by trade. Her OH throwing velocity is a consistent 65 with a high of 69 clocked by D1 schools. Her pop times are in the 1.7-1.8 range. She's scheduled for her first ACT saturday.

Crankermo, you are wealth of knowledge, and unlike so many others that post, i can actually understand what the heck you are talking about.
you get five guys talking about hitting in room, it takes less than two minutes for it to get very load. And, they are all saying the same thing, using different words.
thank you for helping, really..... thank you.
 

redhotcoach

Out on good behavior
May 8, 2009
4,706
38
I've thought this for a while as I've been reading over this thread, is it possible that when MTS says "rearward launch," SteveHuff is confusing this with dropping the barrel straight back toward the backstop? The bolded statement about the wall drill makes me think this is what he is thinking. If the barrel was dropped so it was facing toward the backstop, I would use the wall drill to correct this (because when you drop your bat head toward the backstop you create an unhinged top-hand wrist which causes an extended top arm, which causes sweeping). That's not what I understand MTS to be saying about "rearward launch." To me, I've been interpreting "rearward launch" as the barrel going behind the hitter (pointing toward the 3B coach for a RH hitter) while beginning to uncoil from the resistance in the hips up through the torso.

None of MTS's gifs show the barrel pointing backwards to where the wall drill would be necessary. Barrel still stays deep and inside the ball in the gifs where the hitter isn't fooled. Thoughts?

Thoughts: -You will preserve your sanity if you stop trying to translate senile.
-The ignore function works great, thanks noontime....(I can see the reply with quote problem now though)
-The key: HANDS. Crankermo summarized it in a good way to teach:
it creates live and active hands and I really think that is one the biggest things being miss taught nowadays, people are so caught up in the rotational aspect of the swing. It may sound stupid but I used this que with Brooke, you use your hands to write with, if you use your arms/shoulders to control your pen your writing is going to be terrible, your bat is your pen write with it, control it.
 

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