Critique / Help Series of Swings
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Greenmonsters
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Steve - I'm interested in your take re the old/new Bautista clips that Tewks put together and discussed in the link below.
And as far as checked swings go, IMO they are the product of a hitter planning to swing at every pitch and stopping their swing when the location or pitch is recognized to be outside of the hitter's pre-determined "go zone" as opposed to being due to a hitter being fooled.
What Made Jose Bautista
- Dec 1, 2011
- 64
- 6
Probably better put! I agree, the batter starts in motion on every pitch unless they see very early that the ball isn't going anywhere near the plate. But just as in baseball, in fastpitch moving pitches fool hitters badly sometimes. They have checked swings. An early launched bat barrel can't help. But it is a matter of degrees. Some pitches fool less or more. A checked swing means nothing. As I said before, as Einstein put it, there is no wasted energy. So a bat in motion tends to stay in motion. It can't be argued. It is physics. It isn't a matter of want to be true, or not want to be true. That checked swing is stopped with the wrists when committed early. In Bautista you can see he checked his swing without any barrel movement toward the plat. The next swing could be one that fools him late, and he throws his bat head at it. It means nothing except to see how when the bat barrel is brought to the hip behind the hands, it is easy to stop its motion forward toward the ball. Linear hitters show this trait even more. The bat head stays behind the hands. Above you see a hitter reaching for an outside pitch. That requires a bat head release deeper, behind the batters hip. Notice his back foot doesn't move, his hips are pointed at left field. His mechanics are not bad, but he was guessing correctly, as I think it was a ball. However, the outside pitch, a low outside pitch, a low inside pitch, changes the swing arc and the bat head is released earlier. That is just physics too, not style.
Something I brought up before and asked the Teacherman crowd. Where will the left-hand hitter's extension be toward, when his swing is finished. His mechanics look accomodating for an outside pitch. His extension will be toward left center field. He can't start the swing later than I proposed above and achieve that.
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Time – How long it takes from swing commitment to contact.
Distance of Hand Path – How far the hands need to go forward from swing commitment.
Total Distance of Barrel Travel – Measured from swing commitment.
Radius of the Swing Arc – Again, measured from when a hitter commits to the swing.
Contact Point – How deep the ball can be hit.
That sums up rotational hitting. Ideally the back elbow is at the hip, hand directly above, (slightly ahead on an inside pitch) before the bat head is committed. Bautista just like knightsb's daughter has a big load, bat wrap. It doesn't affect his swing speed because by the time the elbow gets to the hip, the bat barrel is lined up behind his hands. It happens during that weight transition forward against the front foot. The hands catch up with that transition with no problem, from load (including bat wrap) to connection at the hip. I think Bautista is a poster child for rotational hitting in the Howard Carrier - Epstein - O'Leary mold.
R
RayR
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Still haven't figured it out.
Evidence A. And a little hyperbole added in for effect. Mine is bigger!
Evidence B - I admit I am lost as to what point you are trying to make except that, "Na, na-na, na-na, na"
Evidence C - Sounds like you are hedging here....not as likely means exactly what?
Evidence D - I will give you a freebie - it is about where the barrel is checked.....
Evidence E - Hmmmm....it's like you see it, but can't quite figure out what you are looking at.....
Evidence F - Huh? Rotational hitting has always, always been defined as rotating to the ball....rear hip driving the hands and bat to the ball sounds like something else entirely....
Evidence G - Hitting the inside edge of the ball will only cause you to slice it to RF....is that what you want? Hitting the back of the ball or behind it will drive it to all fields depending on pitch location and whether the hitter is early or late
Evidence H - When you are focused on hip and shoulder rotation you are at the mercy of impeccable timing....
Evidence I - Not sure what point you are trying to make - the tip of the bat was used as an analogy...to windmill pitching...but on a low pitch I see all good hitters have this type of bat tip path....amateurs wave at it or ground out....
Evidence J - Further indicates you don't understand about what release is....plus you continue to hedge with meaningless metrics like unbreaking the wrists only degrees or less.....
Evidence K - 2 things - it is not the Tewks, Teacherman, etc hitting method - it's what the high level hitters do. Also, please show me a high level hitter whose barrel does not go rearward as part of the swing path? Show me a high level hitter that is rotating the shoulders with the hands in place...
And - the back elbow is not bringing the hands anywhere....the hands/wrists/forearms are turning the barrel rearward. The elbow is a joint and is at the mercy of the humerus. And really the point you are stuck on is that you do not understand how to get behind the rear leg....your version gets you in front of the rear leg....
[/QUOTE]
What is this, I have a bigger collection of checked swings than you do? What in the world does this or any others show. Well some like the last batter has a bat tip, as did some previous .gifs, and your first posted .gif of the Angels hitter prove MY point, not yours. If the barrel is pulled behind the hands to connection at the hip, the bat head, the bat tip, will not be as likely to come around through the zone as someone who commits the bat head early in a check-wing situation. Furthermore, what does getting fooled on a pitch an getting the bat head out have to do with anything? Anything? I have check-swung at rise-balls over my head and spun myself into the dirt. What does that mean? That is what I said, that is my claim. By the way, Crankermo's DD has a nice looking swing, just like knightsb's daughter.
The only check-swing gifs that prove anything are like your first and last, showing the bat head relatively quiet behind the hands, and someone who launches the swing early. This is futile. The last batter starts his rotation, stops, and relaxes as the slider passes out of the zone. ?
One last thing to hopefully clear up some confusion by some casual observers. Rotational hitting is defined basically by the rear hip driving the hands and bat to the ball. IF WHEN a batter starts that rotation, the bat follows from varying positions, more wrap, like knightsb's daughter, or Albert Pujols, less wrap like Jessica Mendoza, or Crystl Bustos. Low pitches, outside pitches change the swing path of any hitter. Mistake swings, such as launching the bat head out behind the ball instead of hitting the inside edge of the ball, will change the swing path, incorrectly! You can not compare a swing high inside, to a swing low outside. The bat head is released at different times.
And by the way, how can it take longer to swing at an outside pitch, when the back hip rotates at most 50% as much as on an inside pitch, and the bat head is released further back in the swing arc? That question is for pstein. Your shoulders turn less than 45 degrees to hit an outside pitch.
The mistake I see is the perception that the tip of the bat signified the type of swing. That is not the case. knightsb's daughter's swing is in a bat wrapped position, exaggerated by shoulder turn, or coil. It isn't a problem because she still has a a lot of bat speed. Her bat TIP must travel further. That makes a longer bat tip arc, but it doesn't change her swing speed much because she rotates her shoulders OUT OF that coil, and then brings her hands behind the bat knob.
By DEFINITION, the Epstein, O'Leary, Howard, me, etc camp, and all linear hitting coaches like Candrea and Enquist would define early bat release as follows:
If during rotation, the bat barrel stays connected to the shoulder when the back elbow is at the hip, then MORE or less, if the bat barrel is directly behind the hands, bat knob pointed at the pitcher and the bat barrel is pointed directly away back toward the catcher, if the wrists are unbroken into the swing, or this position is only slightly broken, by say 10 degrees or less, then we do not consider it the early bat head release or launch. The back elbow has brought the hands down above the back elbow, (stacked at hip connection). At that point, the wrists are relatively unbroken. The bat barrel is close to the shoulder, not flying away from the shoulder, not previously flying back toward the catcher. That is ROTATIONAL hitting we teach. It is not the Tewks, Teacherman, MTS hitting method.
Footnote: That swing changes with outside and or low pitches anywhere in the zone. It changes when a batter is fooled. In one gif, it appears Larsen of Alabama is reaching out to hit an outside pitch and pulling it to left center. She was fooled on the pitch, and still hit it solid even though she didn't let it get deep. That early launch of her barrel creates an entirely different relationship with her back shoulder and the barrel.
My apologies to redbass. I got posters mixed up again. No argument with redbass. He is just contributing gifs and not making a point.[/QUOTE]
Evidence A. And a little hyperbole added in for effect. Mine is bigger!
Evidence B - I admit I am lost as to what point you are trying to make except that, "Na, na-na, na-na, na"
Evidence C - Sounds like you are hedging here....not as likely means exactly what?
Evidence D - I will give you a freebie - it is about where the barrel is checked.....
Evidence E - Hmmmm....it's like you see it, but can't quite figure out what you are looking at.....
Evidence F - Huh? Rotational hitting has always, always been defined as rotating to the ball....rear hip driving the hands and bat to the ball sounds like something else entirely....
Evidence G - Hitting the inside edge of the ball will only cause you to slice it to RF....is that what you want? Hitting the back of the ball or behind it will drive it to all fields depending on pitch location and whether the hitter is early or late
Evidence H - When you are focused on hip and shoulder rotation you are at the mercy of impeccable timing....
Evidence I - Not sure what point you are trying to make - the tip of the bat was used as an analogy...to windmill pitching...but on a low pitch I see all good hitters have this type of bat tip path....amateurs wave at it or ground out....
Evidence J - Further indicates you don't understand about what release is....plus you continue to hedge with meaningless metrics like unbreaking the wrists only degrees or less.....
Evidence K - 2 things - it is not the Tewks, Teacherman, etc hitting method - it's what the high level hitters do. Also, please show me a high level hitter whose barrel does not go rearward as part of the swing path? Show me a high level hitter that is rotating the shoulders with the hands in place...
And - the back elbow is not bringing the hands anywhere....the hands/wrists/forearms are turning the barrel rearward. The elbow is a joint and is at the mercy of the humerus. And really the point you are stuck on is that you do not understand how to get behind the rear leg....your version gets you in front of the rear leg....
[/QUOTE]
What is this, I have a bigger collection of checked swings than you do? What in the world does this or any others show. Well some like the last batter has a bat tip, as did some previous .gifs, and your first posted .gif of the Angels hitter prove MY point, not yours. If the barrel is pulled behind the hands to connection at the hip, the bat head, the bat tip, will not be as likely to come around through the zone as someone who commits the bat head early in a check-wing situation. Furthermore, what does getting fooled on a pitch an getting the bat head out have to do with anything? Anything? I have check-swung at rise-balls over my head and spun myself into the dirt. What does that mean? That is what I said, that is my claim. By the way, Crankermo's DD has a nice looking swing, just like knightsb's daughter.
The only check-swing gifs that prove anything are like your first and last, showing the bat head relatively quiet behind the hands, and someone who launches the swing early. This is futile. The last batter starts his rotation, stops, and relaxes as the slider passes out of the zone. ?
One last thing to hopefully clear up some confusion by some casual observers. Rotational hitting is defined basically by the rear hip driving the hands and bat to the ball. IF WHEN a batter starts that rotation, the bat follows from varying positions, more wrap, like knightsb's daughter, or Albert Pujols, less wrap like Jessica Mendoza, or Crystl Bustos. Low pitches, outside pitches change the swing path of any hitter. Mistake swings, such as launching the bat head out behind the ball instead of hitting the inside edge of the ball, will change the swing path, incorrectly! You can not compare a swing high inside, to a swing low outside. The bat head is released at different times.
And by the way, how can it take longer to swing at an outside pitch, when the back hip rotates at most 50% as much as on an inside pitch, and the bat head is released further back in the swing arc? That question is for pstein. Your shoulders turn less than 45 degrees to hit an outside pitch.
The mistake I see is the perception that the tip of the bat signified the type of swing. That is not the case. knightsb's daughter's swing is in a bat wrapped position, exaggerated by shoulder turn, or coil. It isn't a problem because she still has a a lot of bat speed. Her bat TIP must travel further. That makes a longer bat tip arc, but it doesn't change her swing speed much because she rotates her shoulders OUT OF that coil, and then brings her hands behind the bat knob.
By DEFINITION, the Epstein, O'Leary, Howard, me, etc camp, and all linear hitting coaches like Candrea and Enquist would define early bat release as follows:
If during rotation, the bat barrel stays connected to the shoulder when the back elbow is at the hip, then MORE or less, if the bat barrel is directly behind the hands, bat knob pointed at the pitcher and the bat barrel is pointed directly away back toward the catcher, if the wrists are unbroken into the swing, or this position is only slightly broken, by say 10 degrees or less, then we do not consider it the early bat head release or launch. The back elbow has brought the hands down above the back elbow, (stacked at hip connection). At that point, the wrists are relatively unbroken. The bat barrel is close to the shoulder, not flying away from the shoulder, not previously flying back toward the catcher. That is ROTATIONAL hitting we teach. It is not the Tewks, Teacherman, MTS hitting method.
Footnote: That swing changes with outside and or low pitches anywhere in the zone. It changes when a batter is fooled. In one gif, it appears Larsen of Alabama is reaching out to hit an outside pitch and pulling it to left center. She was fooled on the pitch, and still hit it solid even though she didn't let it get deep. That early launch of her barrel creates an entirely different relationship with her back shoulder and the barrel.
My apologies to redbass. I got posters mixed up again. No argument with redbass. He is just contributing gifs and not making a point.[/QUOTE]
- Dec 29, 2010
- 439
- 0
This one?
Yes thx roga danar
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