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David, not getting into the whole thing just because I am on my phone...when I get home tonight I can include more.

Shift is weight shift. It is not the same as separation (hands back hip forward). So if you look at the gifs on page 3...the hitter in the shorts (Macia) has shifted most of his weight to his front foot, then he swings. That is SHIFT THEN SWING. Kemp, Cabreara, Posey, are shifting their weight with their swing, as they swing their weight comes forward. That is SHIFT AND SWING.

and I think I get that a little even though your hip is going forward that does not mean you are shifting your weight forward. I think it is really obvious and easy in the one gif (Macia) because he has shifted so far forward, I'm just wondering if this could be a matter of degrees in other swings where it is not so obvious.

To help me better understand would it be correct to state that most high level swings NEVER shift as much of their weight as far forward as the Macias gif? or is it just your contention that it happens later in the swing?
 

HYP

Nov 17, 2012
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Hyp, the way you are describing it is the way I think about except that I just want our hitters to think with their rear leg....Swingbuilder uses "hold the beachball" but I think it's more like "pop the beachball" meaning if you stay back your you will sit into your rear leg as you stride so the legs are spreading....once your back leg/knee fires to pop the beachball against your front leg - your legs close up and instead of round hip rotation you get a direct firing of the legs...

And if you are trying to pop the beachball with back leg - there will be certain amount of "loading" or external rotation of the back upper leg to create some momentum while the rear hip is coiling...because if you try and press the knee forward too soon you end up with the knee under you holding a beachball which leads to hips turning....

Braunpause_zps90906854.gif


brooke3_zps0b9906e9.gif

That's fine with me but I just don't care to much what the front leg is doing. I believe if the rear leg and backside is working properly the front leg will do what it does. The only issue I have with the beach ball is, in order to hold it I have to be using my front leg as well.
 

redhotcoach

Out on good behavior
May 8, 2009
4,706
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Yes. Stand on your rear leg, front leg off the ground, no possible way to weight shift. Now turn your rear knee in and pull you elbow/humerous/scap (load) back. You have separation between your rear hip area and your shoulder and hands with no weight shift.

The big big thing with what Macia is doing and what the high level hitters are doing is that they are 2 completely different mechanics used to generate power in the swing. Both will generate good power, but there are disadvantages to needed to push all of your weight forward then swing.
If you have time, and want to really get into it, I think it is this thread that noontime replied to RDB with a "com
 
Last edited:

redhotcoach

Out on good behavior
May 8, 2009
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sorry...having phone issues..... Noontime posted a link to baseball debate thread that really gets into it.
 

HYP

Nov 17, 2012
427
0
show me where i said seperation includes a wieghted front foot.

You may need to elaborate because I maybe reading this wrong.

IN CABRARAS CLIP, his FOOT is DOWN, and WEIGHTED, before he swings. the weight is not MOSTLEY on the back side.

When you say shift and swing, and you are talking about COG, the giff of CABRERA, shows some flaws in this thinking.

Maybe its not a given


Hyp, you do not believe in seperation, in the turning hips and shoulders?? You believe in a gated swing, where the upper and lower are locked together?

No, I believe in separation. I just do not believe that upper/lower separation is what we are trying to achieve. If all I achieve is upper/lower separation then I will be powering the swing, at some point, with the shoulders and around.

I believe in rear leg/rear hip separation from the hands. The rear hip is pulling the hands. If you maintain the coil and the rear hip moves in front with this coil. I have a connection between the rear hip and the hands. The hips will open in front. They have to because the rear leg is turning in front which forces the hips open. The hips are open but the rear hip is still coiled. I now have separation between the hands and the rear hip/rear leg.

If you create upper/lower separation by uncoiling the rear hip you get hip to shoulder separation and there is no direct connection to the hands except by the shoulders. I do not want my hitters powering the throw with their shoulders.
 
Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
To me, as the heal drops, the slot begins, but the shoulders do hold, and like Dave says, not as much seperation in this clip, as you would see in most others clips of major league hitters, or fastpitch players.

At the begining of poseys swing, which i consider SLOT, foward cog has all but ceased. And movement is around a stiffening front side, Turning, around and against a good front side.
 

redhotcoach

Out on good behavior
May 8, 2009
4,706
38
Hyp he is talking to me about the separation thing:

He said:
You see, to me, shift then swing = seperation.

Shift then swing is weighting the front foot then swinging.

Then he said:
Originally Posted by mann
show me where i said seperation includes a wieghted front foot.
 

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