the important part of bat speed

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Dec 7, 2011
2,368
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Chew on this Mr. T I pity the fool

Hitting Tips From Ray DeMarini
These tips were posted on DeMarini Sports' web site when the softball list was in existence

Let’s get started. Subject - what weight bat to use. I have done lots and lots of scientific testing relating to hitting a softball. I have become a proponent of using light weight bats and here’s why:

Using myself as an example - I generate approximately 95MPH bat speed with my 26 ounce bat. I can generate just about the same 95MPH speed using a 29 ounce bat. You would logically think that I should use the 29 ounce bat, no question. I can swing it as fast and the added mass will allow me to hit the ball farther than with the 26 ounce bat. Logic in this case is dead wrong!

The important part of the equation that isn’t considered in the above comparison is relative bat speed immediately after the ball has left the bat. In other words, how much of my initial 95MPH speed was I able to maintain while hitting through the ball. Here are the facts. I swing both at 95MPH just prior to hitting the ball. With the 26 ounce bat, my bat speed immediately after the ball is hit goes down to 56MPH! With the 29 ounce bat, my bat speed goes down to 49MPH! In other words, with the heavier bat, I’m swinging it fast but cannot push the bat through the ball and maintain as much speed as I can with the lighter bat.

Before we even take this subject much further I think it is crucial to stop and realize the incredible fact that I lose that much speed from hitting a 6.5 ounce ball. It simply amazes me. I have a pretty good follow through, I am extremely strong and have a decent swing ... and I lose all that speed when I hit the ball. I have tested lots of hitters; it is a constant. You lose a lot of speed when you hit the ball.

If you really think about it, what separates the true power hitters from the mere mortals is their ability to maintain bat speed. Compare my stats to that of a truly great player. I’ll reference Larry Carter, one of the most awesome distance and power hitters I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen most all of them!) Larry weighs 260lbs+ and is in great physical condition with a vicious swing and scary strength. He can squat over 600lbs, bench 485lbs. and military press 275lbs. (easy)! You get the message. Larry is strong! He is dedicated and a great, great banger. Compare his bat speed to mine. It’s the same at 95MPH. Larry uses a 31 ounce bat ... I use a 26 ounce. So why does he hit the ball over 100 feet farther than I do? Simple ... his speed during contact with the ball.

Larry has the highest ‘after’ speed I have recorded. I finish at 56MPH, Larry finishes at 89MPH. In other words, Larry literally loses NO bat speed while powering through the ball. Larry shouldn’t go down in weight! He isn’t losing any speed with the 31 ounce ... there’s no need to go lighter. The question is can YOU? If you went with a lighter bat than you now use, would you pickup ‘finishing’ speed, and therefore distance? Try a friend's lighter bat and give it a fair chance. Take the time to know what works for you. Don’t swing 5 times and say, no, not for me. Give it 100 swings. See if your follow through seems more efficient. Note what is happening with the ball.

What I am really trying to get across to you is crucial to hitting performance: you MUST have an efficient and complete follow through with your swing. You must think acceleration through the ball. Go right directly through the ball. Don’t give up your swing the second you feel the ball hit the bat ... in fact, that’s when you have to swing hardest! And give some thought to your bat weight. Make sure you give yourself full chance to be as good as you can!


Huh wuh?.....

Next you'll tell me that Santa Claus is real and he rides a unicorn in the summer months...

This defies everthing i have been taught UNLESS the bats are different bats (more than just weight)
 
Dec 29, 2010
439
0
Really? what dont u guys understand? Title thread importance of bats speed. Albeit its slowpitch softball. Two guys same bat speed 95 mph, during moment of contact, Rays speed drops to 56 mph, Larry's drop to 89. Little recoil in Larrys swing compared to Rays. I guess a milli-second is pretty big factor when it comes to hitting. Your telling me Larry's extra 5oz delivers more than 100 feet in distance. There is an equation out there, I dont know what it is. To me because its pretty self explantory. Maintain batspeed thru point of contact.

Ray was ahead of his time, he quit his corporate job, and went into the bat business while playing tourny ball. He did studies, and hit and hit some more. Thats all he did. He passed away at 55 from cancer. He just merged with Wilson and became ill. They ruined his name for a long time. His double wall bat revolutionized the softball world. If you dont who or what he was about, google him.
 

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
Really? what dont u guys understand? Title thread importance of bats speed. Albeit its slowpitch softball. Two guys same bat speed 95 mph, during moment of contact, Rays speed drops to 56 mph, Larry's drop to 89. Little recoil in Larrys swing compared to Rays. I guess a milli-second is pretty big factor when it comes to hitting. Your telling me Larry's extra 5oz delivers more than 100 feet in distance. There is an equation out there, I dont know what it is. To me because its pretty self explantory. Maintain batspeed thru point of contact.

Ray was ahead of his time, he quit his corporate job, and went into the bat business while playing tourny ball. He did studies, and hit and hit some more. Thats all he did. He passed away at 55 from cancer. He just merged with Wilson and became ill. They ruined his name for a long time. His double wall bat revolutionized the softball world. If you dont who or what he was about, google him.

Sorry, while he was definitely an innovator and ahead of his time, Ray DeMarini was not a physicist. This philosophy spurred Demarini's introduction of the ultralight -12 SB bats which made many young hitters effective in the same manner as shaped skiis have done for novice skiers. I should note that Ray was also an excellent businessman/marketer and other manufacturers followed his lead to get a piece of this niche market. Today's (and for that matter yesterday's) physics disprove Ray's theory and, IMO, the piss poor mechanics we see many girls have today is because of the relative success they have had getting by swinging those light bats. When the level of pitching steps up, the success disappears and they struggle, regardless of bat size/weight, unless they put in the time to develop a sound swing. Best advice is to learn proper mechanics and swing the heaviest bat you can handle without sacrifing bat speed. Next week's lesson will be evolution v. creationism.
 
Mar 14, 2011
785
18
Silicon Valley, CA
It sounds like you are a fan of Ray. Sorry to hear he died relatively young. He sounds like he improved the game and did a lot for softball.

I disagree with the bat speed through contact theory though, obviously. I admit I did not understand the story. One is playing slowpitch, and the other major league baseball, is that right? Was the comparison between hitting softballs and baseballs with different bats?

I guess in the end I just don't understand what the deal is with ball velocity. It seems like people believe some players put an extra bit of magic into the ball at the point of contact. What is that magic?

I obliterated my knee, had surgery and watched every single Giants game down the stretch and in the playoffs. Posey had a truly historical season. Balls seemingly jump from his bat, balls that look like pop-ups sail, and the swing is so effortless.

The more I watched Posey the more I came to appreciate a simple fact: he isn't swing the bat at the ball, he isn't swinging the barrel at the ball... he is swinging the dead center of the sweet spot of the bat at the ball and hits the ball on the sweet spot probably as much as any player in the game.

IMO if a player has equal bat speed but worse results than another player, they are likely not on the proper plane, not hitting the ball as often on or near the sweet spot, or the weight distribution in the bat itself is not optimal for the hitter.

Really? what dont u guys understand? Title thread importance of bats speed. Albeit its slowpitch softball. Two guys same bat speed 95 mph, during moment of contact, Rays speed drops to 56 mph, Larry's drop to 89. Little recoil in Larrys swing compared to Rays. I guess a milli-second is pretty big factor when it comes to hitting. Your telling me Larry's extra 5oz delivers more than 100 feet in distance. There is an equation out there, I dont know what it is. To me because its pretty self explantory. Maintain batspeed thru point of contact.

Ray was ahead of his time, he quit his corporate job, and went into the bat business while playing tourny ball. He did studies, and hit and hit some more. Thats all he did. He passed away at 55 from cancer. He just merged with Wilson and became ill. They ruined his name for a long time. His double wall bat revolutionized the softball world. If you dont who or what he was about, google him.
 
Dec 29, 2010
439
0
Sorry, while he was definitely an innovator and ahead of his time, Ray DeMarini was not a physicist. This philosophy spurred Demarini's introduction of the ultralight -12 SB bats which made many young hitters effective in the same manner as shaped skiis have done for novice skiers. I should note that Ray was also an excellent businessman/marketer and other manufacturers followed his lead to get a piece of this niche market. Today's (and for that matter yesterday's) physics disprove Ray's theory and, IMO, the piss poor mechanics we see many girls have today is because of the relative success they have had getting by swinging those light bats. When the level of pitching steps up, the success disappears and they struggle, regardless of bat size/weight, unless they put in the time to develop a sound swing. Best advice is to learn proper mechanics and swing the heaviest bat you can handle without sacrifing bat speed. Next week's lesson will be evolution v. creationism.

U know that as a fact he started the -12 bats? I dont know if he did or didnt. Wasnt around the fastpitch scene back then. He died in 2002. My dd was 2 at the time, had no idea of ultra light bats like we do today. Only knew of slow pitch and his double wall changed the game with blue dot softballs.

My dd is 2nd year 12u, 2009 I bought her first bat, and the craze was light light light, I dont know anybetter and bought her a rain light -12. She was smoking the ball, but as she got bigger and stronger she was overswinging. Thru time and the net I found that light was not the might.

Last time I checked never seen a physicist play competive softball. I agree mechanics are beyond the most important in a sound swing. Tell me how does it disprove Ray so called theory? Same bat speed, yet 100 foot difference in distance.

Forget the next lesson, its gonna be push-block-push vs. rhpp/hpp all over again.
 
Dec 29, 2010
439
0
It sounds like you are a fan of Ray. Sorry to hear he died relatively young. He sounds like he improved the game and did a lot for softball.

I disagree with the bat speed through contact theory though, obviously. I admit I did not understand the story. One is playing slowpitch, and the other major league baseball, is that right? Was the comparison between hitting softballs and baseballs with different bats?

I guess in the end I just don't understand what the deal is with ball velocity. It seems like people believe some players put an extra bit of magic into the ball at the point of contact. What is that magic?

I obliterated my knee, had surgery and watched every single Giants game down the stretch and in the playoffs. Posey had a truly historical season. Balls seemingly jump from his bat, balls that look like pop-ups sail, and the swing is so effortless.

The more I watched Posey the more I came to appreciate a simple fact: he isn't swing the bat at the ball, he isn't swinging the barrel at the ball... he is swinging the dead center of the sweet spot of the bat at the ball and hits the ball on the sweet spot probably as much as any player in the game.

IMO if a player has equal bat speed but worse results than another player, they are likely not on the proper plane, not hitting the ball as often on or near the sweet spot, or the weight distribution in the bat itself is not optimal for the hitter.

Acutally wasnt a fan of Demarini bats back in the day or now. More of a Easton fan myself. I hear were you coming from Mr. T., sorry about your knee. That extra bit of velocity can be the difference of the ball going past ss, or a routine put out. The ball in the gap getting past the outfielders for a double or hr instead of a single. I guess I got off topic, my bad.
 
Dec 5, 2012
4,143
63
Mid West
I cant help but think the Demarini artical was written before the bat technology changed. This theory probably holds water with an old school metal bat. As far as todays technology with composites and even all metal like rocketechs... this old thinking isn't applicable to todays bats. IMO... Swing the heaviest bat you can as long as fundamentals aren't compromised.
 
Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
Exactley coach james.

i swing demarini, slow pitch and fastpitch. Since i am fairly certain none of use are rocket scientists, do what i did, try it out against your pitchers or a machine. CRANK up the machine. Grap a very light bat, drop 12, 32in. swing, the speeding ball will win. The bat gets pushed back.
use a drop 10 or drop 9 34in. POP, the bat wins.
in slow pitch i have dropped down to a 27 once bat, from 30, then 28. but the ball is not moving. RECOIL.
IMHO, start at drop 10. for my youger dd, i 12u, i use 34 in drop 11. 14u drop 10 or 11, hs drop 10. DEMARINI 5s
 
Mar 14, 2011
785
18
Silicon Valley, CA
Acutally wasnt a fan of Demarini bats back in the day or now. More of a Easton fan myself. I hear were you coming from Mr. T., sorry about your knee. That extra bit of velocity can be the difference of the ball going past ss, or a routine put out. The ball in the gap getting past the outfielders for a double or hr instead of a single. I guess I got off topic, my bad.

No not at all. I try to keep learning, I'm not assuming I am right. The anecdote sounds interesting but I am not sure I understand the details. At one point you mentioned a 5 oz difference in their bats. If that is true then yes that is a huge difference of a possible many differences.
 
Dec 29, 2010
439
0
I got off track here, I am no good in math, or know the equation of physics and transfer of energy. We all learn from our experiences. You want to swing the heaviest bats with compromising your mechanices. From og poster, about bat speed. Same swing speed for both girls why does one hit harder and farther than the other. Say for instance they both have sound mechanics, both have same barrel path, angle of poc, ect ect. Why would one hit farther than the other?

I dont teach or swing myself a vice-clamp, choking the chicken grip on the handle. The above article about Demarini went off in my mind. That is all. He gave his reasoning and did his own tests in the real word, swung real bats, documenting real swings and saw the difference between him and LC. Not from behind the monitor. Not mad at all, gl all.

I
 

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