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Thread: Pulling Head

  1. #11
    I eat, sleep and breathe softball FiveFrameSwing's Avatar
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    I'm a fan fourts's Avatar
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    I think most girls that "pull their heads" is a flaw in their swing usually opening the shoulder to early. If you open your shoulders the head follows.

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    Certified softball maniac Momo'sDad's Avatar
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    A lot of young players pull their heads because they're afraid of the ball and instinct tells them to protect their heads.

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    Administrator Ken Krause's Avatar
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    I agree with Bouldersdad and Fourts. It isn't the head that's pulling out, it's the front shoulder. This often happens as kids try to get more power on the ball; they try to put more arms and shoulders into the ball, so they open up the front shoulder.

    Keeping the front shoulder in, and driving the back shoulder toward the ball, will keep the head in. The head goes where the front shoulder goes.
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  5. #15
    Softball Junkie FPMark's Avatar
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    Ken, Bouldersdad, and Fourts... I understand that hitters that pull the front shoulder usually also pull their head, but what came first, pulling the head?... or pulling the shoulder? If you look at the two clips posted by FFS, they both start with their head looking over their front shoulders. At contact, their front shoulder has rotated out, but their heads are both still on the ball. In fact, as the swing continues to followthrough, they wind up with their head over their back shoulder.

    The head follows the eyes, and the body follows the head. If you turn your head to look at something behind you, your shoulders will turn. If you are looking at something and you turn your shoulders, your head won't turn untill it is forced by not being able to rotate any further. Try it. Stand in the batters box and see how far you can rotate your shoulders before you can no longer keep your head on the ball.

    I'm curious what your reasoning is.

  6. #16
    Softball Junkie Bouldersdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FPMark View Post
    Ken, Bouldersdad, and Fourts... I understand that hitters that pull the front shoulder usually also pull their head, but what came first, pulling the head?... or pulling the shoulder? If you look at the two clips posted by FFS, they both start with their head looking over their front shoulders. At contact, their front shoulder has rotated out, but their heads are both still on the ball. In fact, as the swing continues to followthrough, they wind up with their head over their back shoulder.

    The head follows the eyes, and the body follows the head. If you turn your head to look at something behind you, your shoulders will turn. If you are looking at something and you turn your shoulders, your head won't turn untill it is forced by not being able to rotate any further. Try it. Stand in the batters box and see how far you can rotate your shoulders before you can no longer keep your head on the ball.

    I'm curious what your reasoning is.
    Hey FP I appreciate what you are saying about the above posted clips. The reason the players are able to keep their head in with an over rotation or thrown shoulder is their hands.

    Now before you think im insane lets look at it from a mechanical view of things. Both hitters achieved separation of the hands or walking away from their hands. Their hands therefore became an independent moving part of the swing.

    Do a drilll and tell me your thoughts. Look at yourself in a mirror, face to face and look down at your shoulders. On the outside of your shoulders lets call it the shoulder plane.

    First start with your hands inside of the plane of the shoulders then rotate letting your shoulder fly out and watch what happens. The head has to follow the shoulders. Why?........... because we let the shoulders turn the hands and made it one unit.

    Now walk away from your hands and rotate and youll discover you can get alot more open and the head can still stay on the ball with a ton less strain on the head eyes and neck.

    with proper separation you can rotate the belly button past the pitcher and still keep the head in there. Letting the shoulders turn the hands........... not so much.

    Most kids i see hit only a very few at the college exposure level or heck even at the college level its self know the importance of separation or how to do it.

    This is why I believe we see what we see from so many kids, as the shoulder comes out the head follows.


    Tim
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    Softball Junkie FPMark's Avatar
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    I understand what you mean, overrotation will keep you from being able to keep your head on the ball. However the OP was saying that "pulling the head " is caused by some other problem in the swing. Maybe my definition of "pulling the head" is different than others. To me, pulling the head means turning the head towards the front shoulder, usually at the last minute because the player is looking to see where they think the ball will be going. This can also cause over rotation, but with the head moving toward the front shoulder. Over rotating can cause the head to come off the ball, but is usually because it can't rotate any further against the rear shoulder.

    Most girls who over rotate compensate for it by hitting the ball further out in front, where they don't have to have the head stop against the rear shoulder. Definately a swing problem, but not the same as pulling the head. In my view, pulling the head, and trying to keep your head on the ball but not being able to, are two different problems. One is a mental problem (lack of focus, consentration) that can cause swing problems, and the other is a swing problem that causes more problems like, hitting too far out front, or not being able to see the ball to contact. Does this make any sense?

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    Softball Junkie Bouldersdad's Avatar
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    If it is not mechanical and truely mental then SBFamily was correct in my opinion, place a kleenex in the tee make sure the head is down at contact and do about 100 thousand swings correctly.

    Tim
    Tim Duncan
    Edge Athletic Training Facility. edgeathleticcenter.com

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    Certified softball maniac lhowser's Avatar
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    Cool video Five Frame Swing in post #11. Can learn a lot from that.

    Most of the kids that I have seen pull the head are actually late. Very often against hard throwers. Instead of adjusting timing and making a good hand and barrel path the batter tries to increase bat speed by forcefully tourquing bat to try to increase speed. Then the shoulders and head fly out. Same thing as the weekend golfer on a par five long drive hole. tries to increase club speed and pulls out. I say work on timing. Slow load and a good first move and you will see much improvement.

  10. #20
    Administrator Ken Krause's Avatar
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    For it's a question of whether the front shoulder is initiating the rotation or being "knocked out of the way" by the rear shoulder. When rotation is initiated by the front shoulder the head pulls out. When it comes out as a result of the back side driving it out of the way the head stays in.

    In the top clip the hitter is taking a good swing, but adjusting to an inside pitch. You can tell that by where the catcher's glove goes. So while it appears the front shoulder is pulling out it doesn't happen until later in the swing. It's staying in until being force out rather than pulling out.

    In the bottom clip, I wouldn't say the front shoulder pulls off at all. It is driven out after contact by the back shoulder. Since it comes after contact it has no impact on the swing.

    There can be other reasons the head comes out. But in my experience, 9 times out of 10 it's caused by pulling that front shoulder out instead of pushing it out.
    Ken Krause
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