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Mike · 08-20-2008, 05:13 AM

My Daughter, age 10 has a habit of dropping her throwing elbow before she throws, we have been working on keeping her elbow high with a good follow through but habits are hard to break. I believe in teaching proper fundamentals and I am not really into gimmick products, but we might need some extra help here. Does anyone have expierence with the throw max brace? Whats your opinion? Or does anyone have any tips that can help?

Thank you,

Mike

kenkrause · 08-20-2008, 05:53 AM

Don't know anything about the Throw Max. What I usually do is hold my glove or a garden kneeling pad underneath the player's armpit. If she drops her elbow she'll hit the obstacle. It usually works pretty well.

tom.guerry · 08-20-2008, 09:35 PM

Does it work ?

it depends.

how is it supposed to work for overhand throw ?

In high level throwing mechanics, the rapid acceleration phase of the throw from reversal of maximum layback/external rotation of throwing arm until release, while a mixture of motions, is PRIMARILY via back arm internal rotation and only secondarily by arm extension.

To internally rotate/accelerate effectively, the bend at the elbow needs to be about 90 degrees.

IF the bend at elbow gets too acute/narrow, then internal rotation is interfered with and flexion extension takes on too big a role in acceleration which is stressful and hard to control.

(the opposite problem-Too much arm extension/too staright at elbow- is usually not a hard problem to fix).

The thromax "works" by keeping the elbow from getting too deeply flexed so as to encourage the high level pattern.

cnewman · 08-21-2008, 03:57 PM

This situation is a perfect example of the body and muscle memory.
My 9 year old player has the same problem. I can get her to "dry throw" just fine until I put a ball into her hand and she immediately drops her elbow.
After a few reviews and looking up different ways of trying to correct her though, I've ordered a Throw Max. I'll try to remember to post my findings.

tom.guerry · 08-21-2008, 06:14 PM

cnewman -

That is very good input.

the throwmax does not directly work at the upper arm/shoulder level, but it encourages the right sequence and action there by preventing the deep flexion at the elbow that goes along with not keeping the back elbow up, thus forcing the low level arm throw.

throwmax plus learning the action that "keeps the back elbow up" will make learning the high level overhand throw much more likely.

This is also the same back arm action that is key to a high level swing.

Understanding the arm action sequence is very improtant in coaching and fairly complex.

For example, when you look at video of great overhand pitchers and throwers, there back elbow does stay up "relatively speaking" but of course it does come down some as the throwing hand begins to be layed back by loading/external rotation of the throwing arm

I have found the best way to make sense of this is to understand the universal joint action sequence of the back arm in the overhand throw as explained and demonstarted by Jeff Hodge in his tape:

BIOMECHANICBASEBALL.

That's a great throwing reference if you can find it with direct carryover to the high level swing mechanics.

Flash101 · 08-22-2008, 10:32 PM

Forgetting about the mechanical technicalities for a moment, it might be the case that these young players simply can't easily hold on to the ball with their small hands, and drop their elbows partly as a means to help them support the ball. Bad deal, of course. Try letting them practice some proper throwing mechanics with a 9-inch ball and see if that gives them more comfort so they can focus on mechanics.

fastpitch91 · 08-31-2008, 04:22 PM

I have always seen and understood the "correct" hand position for an overhand throw in addition to being above the elbow as discussed here is for the back of the hand to faceforward ( ie the fingers point back). Now a player asked me to explain why that is correct and I was at a loss for a good a good response as to why this position gives better velocity, accuracy or avoids injury prone movements, etc. any thoughts???

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom.guerry

cnewman -

That is very good input.

the throwmax does not directly work at the upper arm/shoulder level, but it encourages the right sequence and action there by preventing the deep flexion at the elbow that goes along with not keeping the back elbow up, thus forcing the low level arm throw.

throwmax plus learning the action that "keeps the back elbow up" will make learning the high level overhand throw much more likely.

This is also the same back arm action that is key to a high level swing.

Understanding the arm action sequence is very improtant in coaching and fairly complex.

For example, when you look at video of great overhand pitchers and throwers, there back elbow does stay up "relatively speaking" but of course it does come down some as the throwing hand begins to be layed back by loading/external rotation of the throwing arm

I have found the best way to make sense of this is to understand the universal joint action sequence of the back arm in the overhand throw as explained and demonstarted by Jeff Hodge in his tape:

BIOMECHANICBASEBALL.

That's a great throwing reference if you can find it with direct carryover to the high level swing mechanics.

08-20-2008, 05:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mike Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 16	Does the throw max work My Daughter, age 10 has a habit of dropping her throwing elbow before she throws, we have been working on keeping her elbow high with a good follow through but habits are hard to break. I believe in teaching proper fundamentals and I am not really into gimmick products, but we might need some extra help here. Does anyone have expierence with the throw max brace? Whats your opinion? Or does anyone have any tips that can help? Thank you, Mike

08-20-2008, 05:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
kenkrause Super Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mundelein, IL Posts: 221	Don't know anything about the Throw Max. What I usually do is hold my glove or a garden kneeling pad underneath the player's armpit. If she drops her elbow she'll hit the obstacle. It usually works pretty well. __________________ Mundelein Thunder 18U Danes Fastpitch Contributing editor, Softball Magazine Life in the Fastpitch Lane

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08-20-2008, 09:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
tom.guerry Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Rafael, Ca Posts: 106	Does it work ? it depends. how is it supposed to work for overhand throw ? In high level throwing mechanics, the rapid acceleration phase of the throw from reversal of maximum layback/external rotation of throwing arm until release, while a mixture of motions, is PRIMARILY via back arm internal rotation and only secondarily by arm extension. To internally rotate/accelerate effectively, the bend at the elbow needs to be about 90 degrees. IF the bend at elbow gets too acute/narrow, then internal rotation is interfered with and flexion extension takes on too big a role in acceleration which is stressful and hard to control. (the opposite problem-Too much arm extension/too staright at elbow- is usually not a hard problem to fix). The thromax "works" by keeping the elbow from getting too deeply flexed so as to encourage the high level pattern.

08-21-2008, 03:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
cnewman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3	This situation is a perfect example of the body and muscle memory. My 9 year old player has the same problem. I can get her to "dry throw" just fine until I put a ball into her hand and she immediately drops her elbow. After a few reviews and looking up different ways of trying to correct her though, I've ordered a Throw Max. I'll try to remember to post my findings.

08-21-2008, 06:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
tom.guerry Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Rafael, Ca Posts: 106	cnewman - That is very good input. the throwmax does not directly work at the upper arm/shoulder level, but it encourages the right sequence and action there by preventing the deep flexion at the elbow that goes along with not keeping the back elbow up, thus forcing the low level arm throw. throwmax plus learning the action that "keeps the back elbow up" will make learning the high level overhand throw much more likely. This is also the same back arm action that is key to a high level swing. Understanding the arm action sequence is very improtant in coaching and fairly complex. For example, when you look at video of great overhand pitchers and throwers, there back elbow does stay up "relatively speaking" but of course it does come down some as the throwing hand begins to be layed back by loading/external rotation of the throwing arm I have found the best way to make sense of this is to understand the universal joint action sequence of the back arm in the overhand throw as explained and demonstarted by Jeff Hodge in his tape: BIOMECHANICBASEBALL. That's a great throwing reference if you can find it with direct carryover to the high level swing mechanics.

08-22-2008, 10:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
Flash101 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 14	Forgetting about the mechanical technicalities for a moment, it might be the case that these young players simply can't easily hold on to the ball with their small hands, and drop their elbows partly as a means to help them support the ball. Bad deal, of course. Try letting them practice some proper throwing mechanics with a 9-inch ball and see if that gives them more comfort so they can focus on mechanics.