Softball Throwing Mechanics

Tewks said:

The last one is from your website. His hips are going to boost open his hips? His hips are open. Talk to me about lumbar or thoracic extension/flexion, talk to me about the role of the torso, about external rotation of the shoulder... something.

Any this is why still frames are exponentially less valuable that video. How you get to the firm front leg is way more important. You can find pictures of Koufax doing both....

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Extending the front knee allows the hips to keep rotating.

Chris O'Leary said:

Extending the front knee allows the hips to keep rotating.

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Extending the front knee as in the stride? Extending the front knee - during the follow through - allows for a greater range of motion for the follow through. It is the getting over the front side. It is after the throw. It is after all force has been delivered to the ball. It is like a follow through in hitting. Its over. In throwing, there is more need to teach due to deceleration... but even in softball vs baseball the arms speeds and forces aren't as high, there is less risk for labral problems like football quarterbacks. Bigger ball, more weight, not as much speed.... The upstream mechanics are of much greater concern. General upper body strength plays a role too.


In baseball, there aren't nearly many position players who run into serious arm issues as pitchers. Its a use issue. But it sounds more and more like basic arm strength and accuracy are the biggest issues. Good mechanics fix these issues and will also decrease risk for injury.

I would like to see less drills that focus on the wrist flips and more dynamic throws. Some easy warmups could be making throws from a sideways position dropping to one knee (like a SS may do to make a throw to 2B). You would be surprised how much velocity the girls get on these throws when they figure out the sequence. My SS can make this throw easy from the 3B position to 2B. It is quick, accurate and teaches a good sequence to whip the arm.

I have had girls initially struggle with this type of throw - pushing the ball out - but once shown how and when to drop the knee it takes a couple of throws and they are very good at it.

MTS said:

I would like to see less drills that focus on the wrist flips and more dynamic throws.

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Agreed.

These are a complete waste of time.

Chris O'Leary said:

Agreed.

These are a complete waste of time.

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We did away with "wrist flips" in our pregame throwing progressions because (although I introduced it based on past coaches I respect doing it) I couldn't figure out what the point of it was when I participated in the drill myself : >

There does seem to be for young girls a need to instruct how the ball comes off of the fingers and the right rotation, but restricting the action to a wrist flip sometimes even makes it hard for them to feel that.

We now start our progressions with a "dart" throw -- most girls have no idea how to do this and it's useful in rundowns, etc. They also have no idea how to do backhand tosses or even forehand tosses (like a flip from short to second), you usually get something like a bowling motion on the forehand side which from short distance is impossible to control speedwise for the thrower and to see and catch for the receiver.

MTS said:

Also check out Jeter's point and throw old school technique. View attachment 770

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I use to teach what Candrea teaches. Then I found Hodge, and realized that what I was teaching isn't how I throw, nor is it how most baseball players throw. Now I teach what Jetter does in the Attachment 770 clip that MTS posted.

I would be very careful when looking at still photos. IMO most of the still photos in this thread show a throwing arm position that is often taught, but shouldn't be taught. It is a position that is passed through.

IMO, the key is in the clip of Jetter. He launches his throw from the position in the clip. So do most of you guys. In the Candrea clip he has the players launch their throw with the front forearm basically horizontal to the ground, and the throwing arm forearm basically vertical, or perpendicular to the ground. The throwing arm forearm needs to be in the same basic horizontal position as the front forearm when the throw is launched.

If you want a big eye opener; the next time you throw, pay attention to the position of your throwing arm forearm in relationship to the ground when you launch your throw. Is it vertical or more horizontal? When I throw, my throwing arm forearm goes vertical when I launch my throw. I never knew I did it that way until I watched the Hodge seminar.

Edited: to remove references to what is going on in the shoulder joint to avoid confusion and giving others ammunition to argue about stuff that really isn't important to this discussion.

Hodge is good, but incomplete IMHO. He is missing steps in the sequence, especially concerning the rear hip. I did like his videos though. It will provide a solid base.

Regarding the forearm positioning... do you mean vertical down or up?

Wellphyt said:

The throwing arm forearm needs to be in the same basic horizontal position as the front forearm when the throw is launched.

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This is dangerous nonsense.

What you are teaching is a timing problem and a prescription for UCL injuries in softball players.

You want the throwing arm side forearm to be vertical at the moment the front foot plants because that reduces the load on the elbow and shoulder.

What you are prescribing is what caused Strasburg to blow out his elbow.

People are finally wising up to this in baseball, and are changing how they teach, and it would be a tragedy if softball went down this same road.

Wellphyt said:

The way you reduce shoulder and elbow injury, is to take slack out of the muscles and tendons prior to launching your throw. If you have slack in the muscles and tendons when you launch the ball forward, the slack gets taken up all at once, creates a tremendous amount of stress, and increases the stretch in the muscles and tendons to dangerous levels. If there is too much slack, stuff can snap and tear.

In his clip, Candrea talks about the arm needing to work in a circle. He is correct. What does your upper arm do when you take the ball back in a circle? It internally rotates. This takes the slack out of the muscles and tendons. However, then he says to bend your elbow 90 degrees with the forearm vertical and the ball facing back. The only way to do this is to undo the internal rotation and supinate the forearm...bingo, all kinds of slack back in the system. Not good. IMO, there is less of a chance of injury, if you let the throw undo the internal rotation of the rear upper arm that most of us do naturally when we take the ball back.

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More dangerous nonsense.

Tewks said:

Hodge is good, but incomplete IMHO. He is missing steps in the sequence, especially concerning the rear hip. I did like his videos though. It will provide a solid base.

Regarding the forearm positioning... do you mean vertical down or up?

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I find Hodge to be very detailed and comprehensive.

Regarding the throwing arm forearm position, Hodge teaches that the throw is launched with it close to horizontal. The degree of bend in the elbow will vary depending on the position of the player. An outfielder will have less of a bend in the elbow (straighter arm) than an infielder, who benefits from a quicker release.

If the throw is launched with an "up" vertical forearm, there is too much slack. Having a "down" vertical forearm is also bad. Some experts now believe that the vertical "down" forearm position seen in many MLB pitchers, is the primary cause of serious arm injuries. Bascially, these pitchers make and upside "W", with their arms.

The key point I'm trying to make is that there should be no pauses in the throwing motion. Ideally it should be continuous. Howard Kobata mentions in his dvds that all players need to work on getting rid of the pause in their motion. However, even though there is no pause, there is a transition in the motion from the backward swing of the arm to the forward direction the arm takes when the throw is triggered. IMO, the position of the throwing arm forearm at this transition point is very important.

Most of us guys do it correctly naturally. Unfortunately, we do it so naturally, that we don't know what we are doing. So we teach what we think we do, or what we saw some other coach teaching. Bill Hillhouse calls it the "Monkey See, Monkey Do" approach to coaching. I've been guilty of this in the past.

I'm not sure why girls don't do it naturally like boys. I'm sure some of them get coached out of it by well meaning coaches. Also, most girls don't grow up skipping rocks and throwing things. I read somewhere that it has to do with how their brains function. I'm not sure if that's true. All I know is that I don't remember anyone ever telling me how to throw a ball overhand. It just came natural.

What point about the rear hip is Hodge missing? Coil?

Wellphyt said:

Regarding the throwing arm forearm position, Hodge teaches that the throw is launched with it close to horizontal.

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This is dangerous and will lead to elbow and shoulder problems.

Wellphyt said:

If the throw is launched with an "up" vertical forearm, there is too much slack.

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Nonsense.

Wellphyt said:

Having a "down" vertical forearm is also bad. Some experts now believe that the vertical "down" forearm position seen in many MLB pitchers, is the primary cause of serious arm injuries. Bascially, these pitchers make and upside "W", with their arms.

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I am the person who figured out this pattern, and I can tell you that trying to start the throw with the forearm horizontal is guaranteed to cause elbow and shoulder problems while the Inverted W or Inverted L only might cause elbow and shoulder problems.

Wellphyt said:

The key point I'm trying to make is that there should be no pauses in the throwing motion. Ideally it should be continuous.

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That's fine, but getting the forearm vertical won't guarantee a pause (unless you teach that, which I don't).