I don't understand....

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Jun 21, 2012
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Like the title suggests, there are some things about travel/select softball teams and programs that I don't quite understand.

Let's make some clarifications to help keep the discussion on track. This is mainly for parents and coaches, and it is about players who have communicated to an adult that they want to play college softball. It is about teams of 12U, 14U, and/or 16U. It is about the summer season, which, on average consists of 9 -11 tournaments with 5 games per, for about 45 - 55 games. And when discussing game scenarios, both teams are of equal skill and talent.

I don't understand... why travel/select teams only have 10 - 12 players (on average) when college teams have 19.

I have read many posts where parents and coaches were upset with having to, or seeing other teams, use pick up players. If your roster is deep enough, this would not need to happen. Pick-up players or subs are not allowed at the collegiate, or high school level. Why not have a Varsity and a JV travel/select team?

I don't understand... why travel/select teams only practice, on average, 12 times for a 45 - 55 game season. We can even add in winter workouts, so prior to the summer season, we have about 24 practices to prepare for 45 - 55 games.

First, let's clarify that during a game, a player demonstrates habits. So, a player demonstrates what they reinforced in practice. There is really no "new" learning in a game. They may understand a specific situation better, but it wasn't anything new to them. A game doesn't offer a player the opportunity to perfect a skill, only to demonstrate its application. In a typical 75 minute game (why they are timed is beyond me also) a player on average may see three balls hit to their defensive position. Hitting, for the top of the line-up, will see three plate appearances, for 3 - 25 pitches. A practice can offer more repetitions with corrections in the same time period as one game offers. This correlates to practice being where an athlete learns, and perfects their skills, not in games. Players don't get better at running, hitting, catching, or throwing during a game. the numbers just don't offer the repetitions needed to form the habit. So, practice is where improvement happens, games are where this is tested.

So, I ask... Why not join a team that practices more and has more players. Again, the purpose is to get the player to college softball. Below are two webpages that got me to this thinking.
http://www.azdesertswarm.com/other-...ol-athletes-softball-baseball-candrea-johnson
Softball Scholarships & Chances of Playing College Softball
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
The number of players question is interesting but simple...travel is "pay to play" not "pay to sit" so any girl who sat the bench all the time will simply go somewhere else. There are lots of other reasons but this in the end is what it boils down to.

To the JV question see the first answer...better to use an occasional pick up player than have 5 or 6 girls and more importantly parents complaining constantly about playing time.

The answer to the practice question is life and again reference the first answer...since I'm paying I don't expect to be at practice 5 times a week...I would not mind but I would need to have assurances that if I miss a few practices my DD can still play. For the ones that are committed, they can practice once a week with the team and then get individual lessons when it is convenient for them also at individual lesson they can get many more reps...a BIG issue at most practices is the amount of time spent standing around

Finally exactly how will you ever get recruited if you practice with a great team and have developed great skills but you don't have any stats because you never play? In the end you have to perform and that means playing not just practicing.

my two cents
 
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Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
I'd be more likely to put 12U in with 10U rather than with 14U or 16U. At 11 and 12 they're developing so much, they need to play. I wouldn't put mine on a 12U team with more than 12 on the roster.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
I don't understand... why travel/select teams only have 10 - 12 players (on average) when college teams have 19.

This is simple enough...

Travel teams: Parents pay for their DD's to play.
College: The school pays for the DD to play...or not play.

IMHO, 12 players is too few. But, I understand why parents want fewer kids on the team.

I don't understand... why travel/select teams only practice, on average, 12 times for a 45 - 55 game season.

a) most TB players take private lessons.
b) Most TB players are in school and have activities other than softball.
c) Many states ban players from practicing with TB teams during the HS season.


Why not join a team that practices more and has more players.

Yikes...the point of playing softball is to play softball, not practice softball.
 
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
a) most TB players take private lessons.
b) Most TB players are in school and have activities other than softball.
c) Many states ban players from practicing with TB teams during the HS season.

Yikes...the point of playing softball is to play softball, not practice softball.

At the older levels team practice is one of the most overrated aspects of Travel Softball. Softball is an individual sport and as sluggers pointed at the highest levels of softball players are working hard on their own.

We use the hour before each tournament game to practice any team aspects that we need to cover.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
More players equals less reps in practice, and less time on the field in games. 12U+ TB ball is about developing the skills to play at the college level. Those skills don't develop as fast with less reps. Practices are for learning new skills, and it takes lots of reps to learn some of those skills. However, being able to use those skills in a game situation can only be tested and refined by playing in games.
 
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marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
I am going to give you longer answers, but here is the short one. You have control only of the kid that lives with you (and sometimes not even that one). No other kid owes you, your organization, or your team ANYTHING. They paid for their season, they can move on as they see fit. Travel is a wide open market and parents are going to do what they believe is best for their kids whether you think that is right or wrong. As a coach/organization board member etc, it is up to me and the people around me to create an environment that other families and parents and players want to be around. College and High School for the most part - closed system once you are there. There is no other player to bring in once it starts and you can't up and change teams either. Two very different animals.

I don't understand... why travel/select teams only have 10 - 12 players (on average) when college teams have 19.

Because games are shorter, it is a 'paid' service, and so on. There is also a limit to the amount of good players so good players and even average players want game time. Travel is a different animal to college which is a captive audience and you can't just find another player easily. High Schools - or at least good high schools - have larger rosters for the same reason . Smaller, defined players base. Less choice once you have chosen. And so on. 99.99% want their kid to PLAY. Some of these games only go 3 innings and it isn't feasible to get 19 kids in (or to have 19 kids because anyone who can play will just move on).

I have read many posts where parents and coaches were upset with having to, or seeing other teams, use pick up players. If your roster is deep enough, this would not need to happen. Pick-up players or subs are not allowed at the collegiate, or high school level. Why not have a Varsity and a JV travel/select team?

In addition to everything above, parents primarily. No one wants junior on a 'development'/JV team. They want their kid on 'the team' - and they have choice. Again - open market versus a small, captive base in HS or college. I can move my kid to the next team. Why would I want to spend all weekend watching nothing for my kid except them bored on the bench for 12+ hours. Also if I 'guest' form my JV, then they are short and can no longer play that weekend. No one is happy that their little cupcake practiced well - they want their little cupcake to enjoy the playing experience. And frankly, so they should.

I don't understand... why travel/select teams only practice, on average, 12 times for a 45 - 55 game season. We can even add in winter workouts, so prior to the summer season, we have about 24 practices to prepare for 45 - 55 games.

I don't know where you get this from. Maybe you are on a badly run team? We practice 2x week minimum every week - more if we are not playing the weekend. Plus all their outside lessons... and others. Once you get older, it matters less and less in terms of skills, but still, there are plenty of teams practicing way more than this. We are on practice 25 for the 'fall/winter season' with another 6 weeks or so left.

In a typical 75 minute game (why they are timed is beyond me also)
They are timed because we have to get games in and fields cost and in 10U 7 innings could go on 2 hours or 7 hours. In a weekend tournament I need certainty to schedule. And the timed games allows me to block schedule and know how many teams I can take.
College and high school are generally at most doubleheaders and include the same two teams - so most times another group of teams isn't waiting around waiting a totally undetermined time for their game. Also at the higher levels it is easier to predict game length - it is basically impossible in youth games.

So, I ask... Why not join a team that practices more and has more players. Again, the purpose is to get the player to college softball.

If your purpose is the get the player to college softball, then your priorities are wrong. It is an end goal - and my team is right in the middle of recruiting - and that is fine but that isn't the purpose at all. The purpose if for them to play sports, learn things, enjoy themselves, etc, etc. If they put the work in and have talent to get to the next level, then great, but that is where you end up, not the purpose of sports. Especially in 14U-first year and below. Nothing makes a girl quit faster (or hate their sport, or hate their parents) than parents thinking all about college in 12U.

And it isn't our fault your team doesn't practice like other teams do in the younger age groups. That few practices is uncommon.


Look here is an easy exercise.

It is your kid. They are 11. They join a team with 19 players and practice a lot... but they never, ever see the field though they are there for every second, of every team activity - and so are you. 20 hour weekends on the field. Hotel stays. Uniform costs, team fees, team fundraisers, etc, etc. Does that sound like a lot of fun or does that sound like it might suck for you and your kid?
 
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
My DD was on a 1st year 14U TB team with 17 players and its a recipe for disaster. Needless to say, the team imploded after 6 months. Her current team roster is 12 and it works out pretty well. I personally think 13 is ideal for most HS aged teams as vacations, injuries, other sports, etc. can dwindle a roster pretty easily. Also, her organization has a sister 14U team they can draw from, as needed, in emergency situations. It's rare here at DFP to have parents wanting larger rosters, the OP is certainly in the minority opinion when it comes to roster size.

Regarding practices, I think most players get in enough practice time. For example, DD has hitting or pitching instruction every Monday; 2 x week practice with her HS team, 2 x a week practice with her TB team; friendlies or tournaments 2 x a month. That doesn't include optional conditioning and hitting practice each week.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
First, let's clarify that during a game, a player demonstrates habits. So, a player demonstrates what they reinforced in practice. There is really no "new" learning in a game. They may understand a specific situation better, but it wasn't anything new to them. A game doesn't offer a player the opportunity to perfect a skill, only to demonstrate its application. In a typical 75 minute game (why they are timed is beyond me also) a player on average may see three balls hit to their defensive position. Hitting, for the top of the line-up, will see three plate appearances, for 3 - 25 pitches. A practice can offer more repetitions with corrections in the same time period as one game offers. This correlates to practice being where an athlete learns, and perfects their skills, not in games. Players don't get better at running, hitting, catching, or throwing during a game. the numbers just don't offer the repetitions needed to form the habit. So, practice is where improvement happens, games are where this is tested.

I understand your point, but I respectively disagree. Yes, practice is important. Specifically at the younger ages. At 12u many of our players were coming directly from rec ball and many had questionable coaching, in my opinion. So we worked hard in practice to teach them skills they needed to know. However, I believe that true learning happens in pressure situations. Throwing a drop to the outside corner while your dad is sitting on a bucket is one thing. Throwing a drop to the outside corner when you are up by one and the other team has a speedster on third base is completely different. I remember practicing run downs at 12u practice until I didn't think it was possible to do it incorrectly. But then as soon as they are playing in a tight game, they seem to forget what their name is. But gaining that game experience and continuing to practice eventually led to players that can perform those skills with their eyes closed. I enjoy practice and think it is extremely important. But if I had to choose between practice or games, I would take games all day long.
 
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