Bases loaded, 2 outs, batter is walked.

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Jun 28, 2016
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This happened in a recent game. Bases were loaded, 2 outs, batter walks. Before runner on third crosses home runner on second rounds third. Pitcher is in circle. Runner rounding third stops after seeing pitcher in circle and heads back to 3rd. She is called out as per look back rule before runner touches plate. Since this is the third out the ruling is that the run does not count. Anybody have any thoughts as to if the ruling was correct or not.
 
Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
The batter has to get to first before LBR even starts. If runner on from second rounded third, stopped and went back to 3rd it shouldn't be LBR either unless she stopped for a period of time. I would say if hitter got to first and it really was a LBR and runner hadn't scored yet it's not a run. It would be the same if you hit a grounder to SS and everyone was safe and they throw to third and got the runner rounding the base out before the run actually scored it wouldn't count.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
NO , NO and NO.

If it happened as you described it nothing violating the rule occurred.

The runner is allowed to round the bag, stop and immediately return to the previous base.

Get the UIC and protest the ump is misapplying the rule...problem is once the rule is explained to him odds are he will say the girl did not immediately return and that is a judgement call which is why instead of protesting you just kindly explain to the umpire that he is wrong, beg him to look it up after the game and come back and apologize next time he sees you. In all my years I did actually have one ump take me up one it (not this rule) but a few weeks later he was umping our game and started off by saying "you know what, I did go back and look into and you were right, sorry about that".
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
This happened in a recent game. Bases were loaded, 2 outs, batter walks. Before runner on third crosses home runner on second rounds third. Pitcher is in circle. Runner rounding third stops after seeing pitcher in circle and heads back to 3rd. She is called out as per look back rule before runner touches plate. Since this is the third out the ruling is that the run does not count. Anybody have any thoughts as to if the ruling was correct or not.

This is how I see it:
That sounds like a pretty poor call on 'Look Back Rule' - the runner is allowed to go past the bag and return to the bag unless they hesitate significantly.

However I assume you are asking if the 'Look Back Rule' out is a timing out - in USSSA it is. Therefore if it truly was a LBR out, as the run had not crossed, the third out is recorded and the run wouldn't score. (USSSA rules interpration says "Since the look-back rule is not an appeal play, the runner is declared out when the infraction occurs. "). USSSA Rule 2 Sec B 4) Run scored would not count: When a runner crosses home plate after a preceding runner is declared the third out for a base running infraction.

Just because you have been awarded a base and are not at risk of being out, you are not considered at that base until you touch it and the ball is live so you can advance at your own risk past the awarded bag.
 
Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
At a showcase last week, I was watching a team that routinely had its runners round first base after a walk, then immediately go back. I was sitting next to two college coaches, and one of them sorta gasped and said, 'She's out, right?' I'm not an umpire, but I was thinking that she's fine, assuming that she didn't pause.

But I'm not sure about this -- Wouldn't it be true, as CJ stated, that the look-back rule doesn't not go into affect until all forced runners have reached their bases safely? So a walked batter who advances other runners could run to first quickly, round the bag, juke back and forth, and be fine - unless all runners had reached and committed to their new bases?
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
But I'm not sure about this -- Wouldn't it be true, as CJ stated, that the look-back rule doesn't not go into affect until all forced runners have reached their bases safely? So a walked batter who advances other runners could run to first quickly, round the bag, juke back and forth, and be fine - unless all runners had reached and committed to their new bases?

The rule actually doesn't say that, so no. Once the pitcher has the ball in the circle and is no longer making a play, the LBR is on for all runners once they have passed a base. It doesn't mention other base runners effecting other base runners status in the rule in USSSA at least. And an awarded base isn't yours until you have actually stepped on it (unless MTR and Comp tell me otherwise :) )
 
Jun 28, 2016
3
0
I believe the LBR was properly called as the runner, upon seeing pitcher in circle, did not immediately stop before going back to third.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
I believe the LBR was properly called as the runner, upon seeing pitcher in circle, did not immediately stop before going back to third.

The runner does not have to immediately stop when the pitcher has the ball in the circle.

Did the pitcher already have possession of the ball when the runner reached 3B?
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
First things first. As already mentioned, the lookback rule does not even go into effect on a walk until the pitcher has the ball in the circle AND the batter/runner reaches first base. Second, it is perfectly legal for a runner to run past the next base and stop when the lookback rule is in effect, but, they must immediately either continue to advance or return to the base. As for the run scoring, Im not completely positive on USSSA, but they do follow NFHS on most of their rules and approved rulings. In NFHS all runners are determined to automatically be awarded the next base when forced on a walk. So, in NFHS the run does score as the runner on 3rd is awarded home on the walk but I will see what I can dig up on USSSA. In ASA, the run would not count if the 3rd out is recorded prior to the runner reaching home.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Yep, run scores in USSSA. From the 2016 USSSA case book.

SITUATION B: Bases loaded with two outs. With a 3-2 count on B6, the runners break with the pitch. B6
walks as overzealous R2 from second slides past third and is tagged out when F2 throws to F5 before R1
touches home plate.
RULING: R1 became entitled to home as soon as ball four was declared. R1 is awarded home and R1’s
run is scored. R2 is out. Three outs. (8-14-D-4)
 

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