Myth of the A/B/C teams

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Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
I've argued here from time to time about how the system of pre-classifying teams as A, B, C, etc., is not the best solution to offering competitive tournaments. I've also argued that A, B and C divisions are myths. They are made up. There is no convenient gap nationwide that shows where A ends and B begins. That would be like saying the top 50 NCAA D-I teams are A and the rest are B. What's the difference between #50 and #51?

Anyway, here is a good read on how good statewide or regional rankings could replace the A-B-C system and simply place teams based on their ranking. One week, you might be in the A division. Next week, you might be in the B division. Just depends who shows up.

N.C. is lucky in that all state tournament organizations report their scores, making rankings possible. (It's amazing to me how difficult it is finding results and scores of major tournaments around the country, but that's another story.)

Why tournaments should use our rankings | Beast And Destroy
 
Oct 11, 2010
8,337
113
Chicago, IL
We have played out of our class a few times, we had some players every bit as good as they had but thier Team depth killed us.

Maybe 1 game would could win but not a few in a row.

I do think it is hard to classify your Team unless it is an A Team then bring it on.
 
Last edited:
Feb 3, 2011
1,880
48
If you're A, you know it. But even when you think you're A, a Corona Angels Tyson shows up and reminds you that even A has wildly disparate levels and that you might not be ready for prime time just yet, even though you narrowly avoided being run-ruled.
 
Feb 15, 2016
273
18
If you're A, you know it. But even when you think you're A, a Corona Angels Tyson shows up and reminds you that even A has wildly disparate levels and that you might not be ready for prime time just yet, even though you narrowly avoided being run-ruled.

I think parents and coaches care a lot more about all of this when the girls are younger. I don't think I have heard too many complaints about sandbagging once the girls hit 14U. I have seen some fairly dominant (1st or 2nd in almost every tourney) 14B teams struggle when they make the jump to 14A.
 
Feb 25, 2016
82
0
They should set up high school divisions by rankings too. Our division 7 league has three teams that are ranked among other D7 teams, two teams ranked with D2 teams, and one team ranked higher than a D2 champion.
 
Apr 25, 2010
772
0
A large part of the problem in Ohio is teams who advertise themselves as "A" type teams, trying to get the "A" talent. And then they go play in low level tournaments then brag about their winning record. Just like a lot of "showcase" teams. Sure, they play in showcases, but don't bother telling girls before they commit that the showcases they are playing, aren't bringing in the type of schools they are looking for. Coaches need to learn to be objective and realistic about where there team really fits.
 
Nov 17, 2010
191
18
One option which is used in other sports is a system with relegation like they use in European soccer.

So teams sign up as whatever classification they want (A, B, C, D, etc). Then as tournaments are held, teams play only within their classification. At the end of the tournament, the teams that finish in the bottom of A, play B next tournament. Teams at the top of B, play A. Teams at the bottom of B, play C, etc. Then for the final tournaments - State Champions can be crowned from the teams in A, B, C, etc.

Our local club volleyball association uses something like this and by the end of the season, the tournaments are pretty evenly matched.

This is quite a departure from the way tournaments are done now and there would need to be oversight and cooperation at the association level and among tournament directors, but it would attempt to address the classification problem. Also, I imaging this can only work in areas where there is a good concentration of teams with diverse ability levels.

Just a thought....
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
One option which is used in other sports is a system with relegation like they use in European soccer.

So teams sign up as whatever classification they want (A, B, C, D, etc). Then as tournaments are held, teams play only within their classification. At the end of the tournament, the teams that finish in the bottom of A, play B next tournament. Teams at the top of B, play A. Teams at the bottom of B, play C, etc. Then for the final tournaments - State Champions can be crowned from the teams in A, B, C, etc.

Our local club volleyball association uses something like this and by the end of the season, the tournaments are pretty evenly matched.

This is quite a departure from the way tournaments are done now and there would need to be oversight and cooperation at the association level and among tournament directors, but it would attempt to address the classification problem. Also, I imaging this can only work in areas where there is a good concentration of teams with diverse ability levels.

Just a thought....

Actually, this is an excellent idea. A certain number of girls like to move up from C to B to A level, and if the entire team is moving up, they wouldn't need to change teams to move up.

One thing some alphabet groups have is that C teams must be completely or predominately from a certain geographic area. The previous 2 years DD 3 played on a C team, but it was better than many of the B teams.

I guess one problem is that many, many teams are just some softball coaches putting together a team from the girls they know. Those teams aren't part of any organization, so the designation would have to default to something, possibly C.
 
Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
I'd be curious to know state by state how easy it is to find tournaments. In my mind, there is no question that ranking every team and placing teams in draws on a tournament-by-tournament basis according to team ranking (#4, #23, #54, etc., and not A-B-C) is the answer. But, the obstacle is being able to collect game scores from all the tournament groups.

Would anybody like to guess the percentage of game scores that can be found in your state? In N.C., it's over 95 percent. When I was in Georgia, it was closer to 50 percent. Don't know if it's improved or not.

If tournament organizations bought into this idea and provided their scores for rankings, you'd have better tournaments, fewer sand-baggers and trophy-hunters, closer scores, fewer mismatches, dogs and cats playing happily together, all would be good.

fwiw, here are N.C.'s 12U teams ranked 1-160. Tell me where 'A' ends and 'B' begins? It's not there. It's just 1-160.

14U NC Rankings
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
Speaking ASA

The classification process wasn't based on skill rankings, but purpose of the team. An A team was that of a travel team that could fill their roster with no geographical restrictions and a B team was a local rec team that to play in the tournament, all roster players were required to play in the same league/organization. An A team could not play down, but a B team could play up.
 

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