Thread: 2009 Boulder Independence Day Tournament

Originally Posted by sluggers

According to a post on Boulder Competitive Girls Softball web site, the 2009 Boulder single elimination tournament was canceled. This is the most well-known exposure tournament in the US, and so there are a number of great players and teams.

The teams with the best records in pool play were:

CA Cruiser (6-0)
CA Fresno Force (5-1)
CA Lady Magic (5-1)
CA San Diego Renegades (6-0)
CA SoCal Sliders (5-1)
CA NorCal Shockers (5-1)
CA San Diego Renegades (6-0)
CA SoCal Sliders (5-1)
CA Sorcerer - Pete (5-1)
CA Team Anderson (5-1)
FL Tampa Mustangs (5-1)
GA Atlanta Vipers (5-1)
IL Stone City Sharks (5-1)
KS Olathe Rockets (5-1)
TN Germantown Devils (6-0)
TX Eclipse Gold (5-1)

So, as much as people outside of California wish otherwise, all evidence suggests that California is still the breeding ground for the best players.

For us "Old Timers", the Stone City Sharks and the Fresno Force have been around for years and years and years.

Very true. Over the years I have heard a litany of reasons/excuses as to why this was/is the case, some valid but most not.

I remember when I first started trying to coach,(when dinosaurs still ruled the earth) the more "knowledgable coaches" said it would take us 10 years to catch up to Ca. Well, thats been well over 15 years, and if your list is representative, then apparently the prognostication is in need of revision.

The first impediment I remember running across was that you had to go through 20 local coaches to find even one.....who was willing to admit that Ca. was better, despite the (to me) obvious. Difficult to make progress when you don't even acknowledge the other guy is continually putting it to you.

One year, the locals had put together a "dream team" who soundly throttled the local teams and I remember the old time coaches predicting this team would be the one to end the domination of the Ca. teams.

Well, later that season, our team was over at Fireworks playing in the young age groups and we had an off day,so I decided to run over to Boulder to watch the local "dream team" play Hannings Bat Busters. It took Hanning, et al, about two innings to chop up, eviserate, chewup, and spit out the local "dream team." It wasn't even close. So much for the local brain trust.

It wasn't until sometime later the locals were able to put together a team that was able to win a couple of nationals. That was a great team, but in fairness, it would be difficult not to win if your pitcher was named............ Cat Osterman. (Although CC at UT managed to accomplish that goal. Sorry, I know that was mean. )

Sorry for the rant but Sluggers hit a nerve. So in conclusion, for those still awake in this thread ??? I would be genuinely interested in.........

Why do you think/ if you think, that Ca. remains so dominate.

West Texas?

Originally Posted by sluggers

California/Arizona teams play 12 months out of the year.

A valid argument for many in the country. It won't wash here because they play year around.

Originally Posted by sluggers

Colleges in California have been playing fastpitch for many, many years. There are many knowledgeable coaches in California.

Probably the biggest reason for their success. The coaches in Ca. are much more knowledgable. I know I used to try and pick their brain as much as I could on the old FPF.

Originally Posted by sluggers

Up until about 10 years ago, softball was played in Chicago, Iowa, West Texas, New England, and California.

I can't speak on some areas of the country but would disagree on the TEXAS part, at least at the travel ball level. IIRC, the evolutionary ground zero for Texas was Houston. Specifically SE Houston, although that has migrated over the years to the west/southwest side of town.

Originally Posted by sluggers

Other that those areas, the country was pretty much dead to fastpitch. The southern schools, exemplified by those in the SEC, didn't even have a softball program until about 10 years ago. So, everyone is struggling to catch up. It will probably take another twenty years for the SEC to catch California.

It might.

Originally Posted by sluggers

My DD played at El Paso CC her first two years of college, and got to compete against the Arizona and California teams. She really learned to play there, not in Illinois. After that, she came back to the midwest to finish out her college career. The D1 team she played for was good against other teams from the midwest, southeast and northeast. They couldn't play with the California teams.

Most still can't

Originally Posted by sluggers

The good California teams are much quicker than the midwest teams. The California look like they are on roller skates on the infield and outfield, while the midwest teams look like they are slogging through mud.

Agree.I have seen the same thing.

Originally Posted by sluggers

About 12 years ago or so, one of my friends took an 18U team to play in the ASA Gold tourney. The team had cleaned everybody's clocks in the midwest. They didn't win a game. One of my buddies from California who saw them play said they had good pitching, but their team couldn't field--it was quite a shock, since the midwest team was clearly the best fielding team around our area that year.

That is/was the only area of SB that I would say of Texas softball that is relatively equal with Ca. SB

Originally Posted by calgofo

I can't speak on some areas of the country but would disagree on the TEXAS part, at least at the travel ball level. IIRC, the evolutionary ground zero for Texas was Houston. Specifically SE Houston, although that has migrated over the years to the west/southwest side of town.

Yes and the other population centers are coming on now but I haven't seen much out of West Texas.

I agree that coaching, weather, colleges, history all play a role in CA dominance. I also think sheer size of the population has something to do with it. CA has 36 million residents, Orange County alone is 3 million which is more comparable to most of the states that they compete against (Texas excluded).

In MN we've fielded some reasonably strong teams in the last few years (2008 MN Irish tied 17th ASA 18U Gold, MN Sting 2nd at 18A USA/ASA Nationals) but when we enter a tournament like that we've got one or two chips and one chair and CA comes in with 25. IMO part of those MN teams success has been a relatively large metro area (MPLS/ST.PAUL) feeding only a few teams (probably 4 two years ago, now about 10) competing at the top level. Many here have predicted that we will fall back out of contention as more teams form and the talent level dwindles. I see the opposite happening. It doesn't do any good to form one great team. If you don't form a large group of great teams and have them pound on each other year round you can't reach the highest level. That's one of CA real advantages, lots of great teams with good access to play other great teams.

Originally Posted by kenkrause

So here's a question for you. We've all heard about the top level of CA softball. Is there also a more average level? Or are all the teams top-notch?

Our top teams could beat mediocre Ca. teams. Our top teams could not (with any consitency) beat top Ca. teams.