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halskinner · 07-16-2008, 07:45 PM

H Ken.

Here is what I would do.

You have to test the catcher's arm and hope for a bad throw or bad catch, however, they practice that ALOT and are probably good at it.

On the other hand, the other option is to test the pitchers overhand throw to home. Seldom does a team practice that and in many cases, the pitcher's overhand throw is lousy at best.

Runner on third only comes off one step. Catcher may or may not look at her and then throws the ball back to the pitcher. THE INSTANT the catcher lets go of the ball, runner on third sprints hard for home and slides.

Chances are that the pitcher is going to make a lousy hurried throw to the catcher and the runner is safe. Runner on first has advanced to second and, if that throw from the pitcher was REALLY lousy, she is now on third and in position to be the winning run.
Steal home. No team does this enough and it is seldom expected.

I think you have a better chance there than risking a throw down from the catcher to second base.

We stole home at every opportunity.

But, then again, we refused to lose!

Winning Fast Pitch Softball

halskinner · 07-16-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

I don't understand why some folks would be concerned with the runner on third.......

This isn't like baseball where the runner on first takes a lead off and the pitcher can be distracted trying to hold the runner close and worrying about the hitter. The pitcher has only one job and that is to pitch. .

"The pitcher should only be concerned with the batter." Hmmmmm.

It is not like baseball, where the runner gets to lead off. This IS softball and if the runner comes off the bag too soon, OUT!

There are pitching tactics a softball pitcher can use that will cause the runners to come off the bags too soon and get called out.

I once came into the game, bottom of the third, bases loaded, one out. I used a pitching tactic (like I am talking about) on the first pitch. The next thing everyone heard was the field ump yelling 'Dead ball, runners out, left too soon', he was pointing at the 2nd base runner. Cool runners on 1st and
3rd, two outs.

Next batter, first pitch I used the same tactic with the same result, except this time it was the runner on 1st.

I came in, got two outs and officially, I never threw a pitch!

You are right about the difference between baseball and softball pitchers.

A SOFTBALL PITCHER HAS MUCH MORE CONTROL OVER THE RUNNERS, (if they know what they are doing

)

Winning Fast Pitch Softball

madskilz · 07-16-2008, 10:34 PM

What's the "tactic" you used? The only thing I can think is that you somehow delayed the delivery of the pitch.

halskinner · 07-17-2008, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madskilz

What's the "tactic" you used? The only thing I can think is that you somehow delayed the delivery of the pitch.

You are close, however, it is not the delivery. For more info you can check out my book on Marc's site.

Winning Fast Pitch Softball

Mr. Charlie · 07-29-2008, 01:14 AM

Whats a field ump? I'm talking 16U travel ball or HS varsity. At best you get two umps and neither one is paying any attention. I've had runners clearly leaving early and the umps have no clue. You try that trick in that situation and all you'll do is get yourself in a hole.

Trying to steal home doesn't make much sense to me. It comes at a high risk of giving the game away and it is not the tying run. Even if you are successful and the runner also makes it to second you still need a hit (or two) to tie the game up. If you indeed do get that hit then the runner that was on third would have been able to score with no risk. Hero plays do not win ball games. Baseball/softball is a game of percentages and you are playing the low percentages. A coach should put his team in the highest percentage situation and then let the talent take care of everything else.

bgecoach · 07-29-2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halskinner

You are close, however, it is not the delivery. For more info you can check out my book on Marc's site.

Winning Fast Pitch Softball

was it something along these lines?
Kudda: Softball - Softball: Throwing Alternative Pitches - Delayed Arm Rotation

TryIN2GetItRight · 08-23-2008, 06:33 AM

With all due respect stealing home in this situation is crazy. I do not see how that is playing to win.

I fake the 1st to second steal on the first pitch. Four running steps. What was the catchers reaction? Was it a ball or a strike? If a strike I steal second on the next pitch (0-1 is not a hitters count). If a Ball I fake the steal again with 3 running steps. (protect from the catchers throw to first) What was the catchers reaction. If a ball I am staying if a strike I am going on the next pitch.

I am not looking to steal second to get the runner from third home although that is a positive by-product, but I am looking to take the force off second. Very few infield hits when there is a force at second and a #7 hitter has little chance of hitting a gapper.

I want the catcher to get numb to my fake steals or to throw behind me on the pitch I go on. (0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 3-1, 2-1 I am holding or faking the steal. 0-1, 1-1, 2-2, 3-2 I am going).

The reality is the score is 3-1 so this pitcher has most likely been pretty dominating and most 7 hitters are not the kids you have the greatest faith in coming up with big hits. Even if she walks the #8 is coming up and she probably isn't the greatest hitter either, so safely stealing second is probably a better % chance than letting the #7 and #8 bat with the force at second.

I have been on both sides of this - where I got my player thrown out being too aggressive and not doing anything while my #8 hitter struck out watching 4 pitches. Neither felt good but I laid awake in bed a lot longer the night that poor kid struck out thinking I should have done something.

NYLadyCobras · 10-08-2008, 09:06 PM

From an offensive side:
1.If possible put in a pitch runner if you have a rabbit on the bench.
2.Set the batter way deep in the box and have her setup for a fake bunt
by positioning the batter deeper in the box that puts the catcher deep also
3.Send the runner.

From the defensive side:
with 2 outs get the runner going to second. Call an up and out fastball to give catcher best position to throw the ball.

Worst case: you try and get the runner and she is safe at second and runner on third scores. You are still up by a run and a Base hit still probally still ties the score same as if you let the runner go.

Sean Hall · 10-23-2008, 02:27 AM

Mr. Charlie and NY Lady Cobras have this one figured out perfectly.

Offensivley- I would try to steal if I had a fast runner and probably not on the 1st pitch. I might do a fake drag bunt but definatley not a fake sac bunt that would tip off the steal. I would make sure the runner on 3rd could score easily because she will still easily on the base hit that you will need to win the game.

Defensively-You have to try to get the out at 2nd. The runner on 3rd is meaningless.

Hal- With all due respect (which is A LOT!) doing a delayed steal home from 3rd (which may have a 25% success chance) with a meaningless run is a really bad idea.

Thanks
Sean

JoeA1010 · 10-25-2008, 08:28 AM

As Sean said, Mr. Charlie has this one right. This is really a very easy situation from a defensive standpoint. As Charlie said, just pretend there is no runner on third and what would you do? The runner on third means zero.

On offense, whether we steal depends upon several factors that others have mentioned. Although I like a delayed steal of home with two outs in certain situations, this is definitely not one of those situations. The odds of stealing second safely are much higher than a delayed steal of home, and the runner on first is the only one who matters here.

Also on offense, I would watch closely to see what the defense does on the first pitch. If it appears they don't know any better and are willing to give second base to the runner on first, then I'd be happy to take the freebie and now we're only one hit away from tying the game.

07-16-2008, 07:45 PM	#21 (permalink)
halskinner Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ceres, California Posts: 139	H Ken. Here is what I would do. You have to test the catcher's arm and hope for a bad throw or bad catch, however, they practice that ALOT and are probably good at it. On the other hand, the other option is to test the pitchers overhand throw to home. Seldom does a team practice that and in many cases, the pitcher's overhand throw is lousy at best. Runner on third only comes off one step. Catcher may or may not look at her and then throws the ball back to the pitcher. THE INSTANT the catcher lets go of the ball, runner on third sprints hard for home and slides. Chances are that the pitcher is going to make a lousy hurried throw to the catcher and the runner is safe. Runner on first has advanced to second and, if that throw from the pitcher was REALLY lousy, she is now on third and in position to be the winning run. Steal home. No team does this enough and it is seldom expected. I think you have a better chance there than risking a throw down from the catcher to second base. We stole home at every opportunity. But, then again, we refused to lose! Winning Fast Pitch Softball Last edited by halskinner; 07-16-2008 at 08:17 PM.

07-16-2008, 10:34 PM	#23 (permalink)
madskilz Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 25	I'll bite What's the "tactic" you used? The only thing I can think is that you somehow delayed the delivery of the pitch.

07-29-2008, 01:14 AM	#25 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 12	Hal Whats a field ump? I'm talking 16U travel ball or HS varsity. At best you get two umps and neither one is paying any attention. I've had runners clearly leaving early and the umps have no clue. You try that trick in that situation and all you'll do is get yourself in a hole. Trying to steal home doesn't make much sense to me. It comes at a high risk of giving the game away and it is not the tying run. Even if you are successful and the runner also makes it to second you still need a hit (or two) to tie the game up. If you indeed do get that hit then the runner that was on third would have been able to score with no risk. Hero plays do not win ball games. Baseball/softball is a game of percentages and you are playing the low percentages. A coach should put his team in the highest percentage situation and then let the talent take care of everything else.

10-08-2008, 09:06 PM	#28 (permalink)
NYLadyCobras Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 13	what would I do From an offensive side: 1.If possible put in a pitch runner if you have a rabbit on the bench. 2.Set the batter way deep in the box and have her setup for a fake bunt by positioning the batter deeper in the box that puts the catcher deep also 3.Send the runner. From the defensive side: with 2 outs get the runner going to second. Call an up and out fastball to give catcher best position to throw the ball. Worst case: you try and get the runner and she is safe at second and runner on third scores. You are still up by a run and a Base hit still probally still ties the score same as if you let the runner go.

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08-23-2008, 06:33 AM	#27 (permalink)
TryIN2GetItRight Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5	With all due respect stealing home in this situation is crazy. I do not see how that is playing to win. I fake the 1st to second steal on the first pitch. Four running steps. What was the catchers reaction? Was it a ball or a strike? If a strike I steal second on the next pitch (0-1 is not a hitters count). If a Ball I fake the steal again with 3 running steps. (protect from the catchers throw to first) What was the catchers reaction. If a ball I am staying if a strike I am going on the next pitch. I am not looking to steal second to get the runner from third home although that is a positive by-product, but I am looking to take the force off second. Very few infield hits when there is a force at second and a #7 hitter has little chance of hitting a gapper. I want the catcher to get numb to my fake steals or to throw behind me on the pitch I go on. (0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 3-1, 2-1 I am holding or faking the steal. 0-1, 1-1, 2-2, 3-2 I am going). The reality is the score is 3-1 so this pitcher has most likely been pretty dominating and most 7 hitters are not the kids you have the greatest faith in coming up with big hits. Even if she walks the #8 is coming up and she probably isn't the greatest hitter either, so safely stealing second is probably a better % chance than letting the #7 and #8 bat with the force at second. I have been on both sides of this - where I got my player thrown out being too aggressive and not doing anything while my #8 hitter struck out watching 4 pitches. Neither felt good but I laid awake in bed a lot longer the night that poor kid struck out thinking I should have done something.

10-23-2008, 02:27 AM	#29 (permalink)
Sean Hall Sean Hall Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset, Wisconsin Posts: 5	Mr. Charlie and NY Lady Cobras have this one figured out perfectly. Offensivley- I would try to steal if I had a fast runner and probably not on the 1st pitch. I might do a fake drag bunt but definatley not a fake sac bunt that would tip off the steal. I would make sure the runner on 3rd could score easily because she will still easily on the base hit that you will need to win the game. Defensively-You have to try to get the out at 2nd. The runner on 3rd is meaningless. Hal- With all due respect (which is A LOT!) doing a delayed steal home from 3rd (which may have a 25% success chance) with a meaningless run is a really bad idea. Thanks Sean

10-25-2008, 08:28 AM	#30 (permalink)
JoeA1010 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7	As Sean said, Mr. Charlie has this one right. This is really a very easy situation from a defensive standpoint. As Charlie said, just pretend there is no runner on third and what would you do? The runner on third means zero. On offense, whether we steal depends upon several factors that others have mentioned. Although I like a delayed steal of home with two outs in certain situations, this is definitely not one of those situations. The odds of stealing second safely are much higher than a delayed steal of home, and the runner on first is the only one who matters here. Also on offense, I would watch closely to see what the defense does on the first pitch. If it appears they don't know any better and are willing to give second base to the runner on first, then I'd be happy to take the freebie and now we're only one hit away from tying the game.