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jofus13 · 07-05-2008, 12:41 AM

Well, our 11-12 yr old little league all-star team must be ahead of the curve, because we do it too

Actually, teams in our 9-12 year old little league all do it pretty much, but like Mark said, that's before the defense can throw it hard enough to stop it.

I like the pitcher to 1st baseman defense, my DD's 12U travel team also will occasionally have the catcher throw the ball to the SS....who isn't covering 2nd, but is moving towards home, trying to catch the runner on 3rd being overanxious and then throwing her out.

The catcher on our 12U team has the best arm I've ever seen on any catcher anywhere near her age (and probably 14u and maybe 16u), and my DD (the SS) has a decent arm too, so sometimes we play it honest. Usually after our catcher takes the throw down to 2nd from her knees, and it never gets above shoulder high and is a strike to the first side of the base, the other team rethinks some of their baserunning strategy

EJL · 07-05-2008, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sluggers

Ed, you are truly a genius.

I watched the entire CWS this year, and I didn't see anyone do it. And, the last time I watched the Olympics, I didn't see any teams do this either. So, you better call Mike Candrea quick and tell him about this, so that the US can coast to the Gold this year.

Sluggers, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. I'm actually looking for positive input to help me understand why it isn't used in my area. Now, I'm guessing you aren't in my area, so you don't really know how the teams in my area play. Why not be aggressive and do something that isn't usually done? Maybe cause the D to make an error and just maybe score a run. But just because Candrea doesn't use it really has no bearing on whether or not it will work 'round these parts.

Ed

Comp · 07-05-2008, 01:53 PM

It only works at young age levels or against low level and inexperienced teams. Try it against any good 16, 18 or gold team and you will have 2 outs on your hands because they will get the girl trying to take 2nd, and then get the girl at home too.

Amy in AZ. · 07-05-2008, 02:27 PM

It isn't used (in my opinion) at the younger ages, because coaches don't like to show the other team up, that much.

If I use it, I better be able to defend against it, because the other team will try it too.

Also, there are those special umpires that will call the runner out for going to second, if the ball is in the circle.

jofus13 · 07-05-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy in AZ.

It isn't used (in my opinion) at the younger ages, because coaches don't like to show the other team up, that much.

If I use it, I better be able to defend against it, because the other team will try it too.

Also, there are those special umpires that will call the runner out for going to second, if the ball is in the circle.

Show the other team up? I could maybe see that being an issue in a rec league, but in travel ball, I wouldn't worry about showing anyone up.

If an umpire calls the runner out, then I hope he can show me the rule that justifies the call.

3'sDad · 07-06-2008, 02:41 AM

Our 12U All-Star team pulled off a DP Thursday night on a 1st & 3rd situation....runner from 1st thrown out stealing 2nd; SS tagged runner and fired to home to catch runner from 3rd....took the wind out of the sails of the opposing team.

sluggers · 07-06-2008, 05:19 AM

ELJ: My apologies. The point is that if they don't do it in the Olympics or the CWS, there must be a way to defend it.

The trick in softball is not beating the sh*tty teams. The trick is beating the good teams. Teams that can't defend that play are sh*tty--they have a weak catcher and a weak SS. If they are that bad, you should simply have the next batter bunt, because the catcher will no doubt throw the ball into right field.

To beat the good teams, you have to win the 1-0 games. To win the 1-0 games, every base runner is valuable, especially one that makes it to third with less than two outs.

12U girls have a real problem executing because their arms and brains aren't consistent. 14Us in the midwest (not California) have trouble. 16U girls on any marginally successful team will nail the runner at 3B

I believe you are from Iowa. Iowa has the high schools play in the summer, so you don't see really good ASA teams. The California ASA teams are truly a joy to watch. Their fielding is at a whole different level than the rest of the country's.

bigdaddy · 07-06-2008, 11:55 AM

To add to Sluggers point...you can spend your time doing goofy things that help you win at 10U and 12U OR you can spend your time working on skills that will allow you to win at 16U and up.

This play simply does not work against good teams.

Keith

sluggers · 07-06-2008, 11:16 PM

bigdaddy is absolutely right--you are trying to get the girls ready to be good 16U and 18U players. If you wait and do the normal steal 2B, then you can have the batter get involved and do fun things like a hit and run, a "mandatory swing", fake bunt, squeeze play, etc. Then, you've got all the offensive players involved in the play. Everyone has to read the signals and understand the game situation. You are introducing the girls to "short ball" and having the offensive players work as a team.

It may be the same result in the long run, but you are teaching more--and that is what being a coach at 10U and 12U is all about.

CoachB25 · 07-17-2008, 08:03 PM

We defend this play easily and to be honest no one has scored on us attempting what you suggest. When that runner starts, the ball is in the circle. We have the pitcher receive the ball deep and look the runner at 3rd. In the mean time the runner on 1st is advancing and right in the middle of the basepath is our 2nd baseman. The pitcher fires the ball to the 2b who tags the runner and throws home. We won a championship game this past weekend where a team tried this 3 times. I couldn't believe that they were giving us outs with runners in scoring position. However, we were more than glad to take them.

07-17-2008, 08:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
CoachB25 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Intersection Interstates 55, 70, & 270 Posts: 28	Where is the 2nd baseman? We defend this play easily and to be honest no one has scored on us attempting what you suggest. When that runner starts, the ball is in the circle. We have the pitcher receive the ball deep and look the runner at 3rd. In the mean time the runner on 1st is advancing and right in the middle of the basepath is our 2nd baseman. The pitcher fires the ball to the 2b who tags the runner and throws home. We won a championship game this past weekend where a team tried this 3 times. I couldn't believe that they were giving us outs with runners in scoring position. However, we were more than glad to take them.

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07-05-2008, 12:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
jofus13 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Almost Heaven, West Virginia Posts: 42	Well, our 11-12 yr old little league all-star team must be ahead of the curve, because we do it too Actually, teams in our 9-12 year old little league all do it pretty much, but like Mark said, that's before the defense can throw it hard enough to stop it. I like the pitcher to 1st baseman defense, my DD's 12U travel team also will occasionally have the catcher throw the ball to the SS....who isn't covering 2nd, but is moving towards home, trying to catch the runner on 3rd being overanxious and then throwing her out. The catcher on our 12U team has the best arm I've ever seen on any catcher anywhere near her age (and probably 14u and maybe 16u), and my DD (the SS) has a decent arm too, so sometimes we play it honest. Usually after our catcher takes the throw down to 2nd from her knees, and it never gets above shoulder high and is a strike to the first side of the base, the other team rethinks some of their baserunning strategy

07-05-2008, 01:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
Comp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 14	It only works at young age levels or against low level and inexperienced teams. Try it against any good 16, 18 or gold team and you will have 2 outs on your hands because they will get the girl trying to take 2nd, and then get the girl at home too.

07-05-2008, 02:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
Amy in AZ. Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 161	It isn't used (in my opinion) at the younger ages, because coaches don't like to show the other team up, that much. If I use it, I better be able to defend against it, because the other team will try it too. Also, there are those special umpires that will call the runner out for going to second, if the ball is in the circle.

07-06-2008, 02:41 AM	#16 (permalink)
3'sDad Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Morristown, NJ Posts: 25	Our 12U All-Star team pulled off a DP Thursday night on a 1st & 3rd situation....runner from 1st thrown out stealing 2nd; SS tagged runner and fired to home to catch runner from 3rd....took the wind out of the sails of the opposing team.

07-06-2008, 05:19 AM	#17 (permalink)
sluggers Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 143	ELJ: My apologies. The point is that if they don't do it in the Olympics or the CWS, there must be a way to defend it. The trick in softball is not beating the shtty teams. The trick is beating the good teams. Teams that can't defend that play are shtty--they have a weak catcher and a weak SS. If they are that bad, you should simply have the next batter bunt, because the catcher will no doubt throw the ball into right field. To beat the good teams, you have to win the 1-0 games. To win the 1-0 games, every base runner is valuable, especially one that makes it to third with less than two outs. 12U girls have a real problem executing because their arms and brains aren't consistent. 14Us in the midwest (not California) have trouble. 16U girls on any marginally successful team will nail the runner at 3B I believe you are from Iowa. Iowa has the high schools play in the summer, so you don't see really good ASA teams. The California ASA teams are truly a joy to watch. Their fielding is at a whole different level than the rest of the country's.

07-06-2008, 11:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
bigdaddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 104	To add to Sluggers point...you can spend your time doing goofy things that help you win at 10U and 12U OR you can spend your time working on skills that will allow you to win at 16U and up. This play simply does not work against good teams. Keith

07-06-2008, 11:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
sluggers Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 143	bigdaddy is absolutely right--you are trying to get the girls ready to be good 16U and 18U players. If you wait and do the normal steal 2B, then you can have the batter get involved and do fun things like a hit and run, a "mandatory swing", fake bunt, squeeze play, etc. Then, you've got all the offensive players involved in the play. Everyone has to read the signals and understand the game situation. You are introducing the girls to "short ball" and having the offensive players work as a team. It may be the same result in the long run, but you are teaching more--and that is what being a coach at 10U and 12U is all about.