Unsportsmanlike Conduct?

Not necessarily the 3rd base coach - myself - because these are things these girls have been preached to over since day one of this team in April, are preached every practice, and again during games. You can only say it so much before it becomes lost in their minds if they aren't focused. Most of these girls were practicing for my team WHILE playing on their school teams. Only 1 of my 10 girls plays travel ball at all. The rest do it as their 3rd sport of the year, and there's not a ton of focus (the softball equivalent of "You can lead a horse to water...). There is a lot of dedication to playing but a lack of "Softball Smarts" as I call them. We are 4-6 (out of 13 games) this season. We had a DH last night and lost both games against two of the top teams in our league (5-2, only because I had to pull my LF during 1 inning because she was near passing out from the heat - they scored all 5 runs this inning, and 5-4 in extra innings after making a very solid comeback). Dedication can't be argued, but intangibles can be. It's something as a 3rd year coach I'm trying everyday to improve on.

gdc03120 said:

I can actually tell you what happened - bottom of 6th starts at 7:42pm
Batter #2 - 1-1 count, grounds out 6-3
Batter #3 - 3B on first pitch
Batter #4 (cleanup) - 2B on first pitch, RBI
Batter #5 - 1-1 count, grounds out 6-3
Batter #6 - 1-0 count, grounds out 6-3.

This team has a nasty habit of swinging at the first pitch. I can't figure what to do to cure it, but sometimes we're the fly, sometimes the windshield.

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Those who swung at the first pitch were 2-for-2 with a double and triple. Maybe no cure needed.

gdc03120 said:

Not necessarily the 3rd base coach - myself - because these are things these girls have been preached to over since day one of this team in April, are preached every practice, and again during games. You can only say it so much before it becomes lost in their minds if they aren't focused. Most of these girls were practicing for my team WHILE playing on their school teams. Only 1 of my 10 girls plays travel ball at all. The rest do it as their 3rd sport of the year, and there's not a ton of focus (the softball equivalent of "You can lead a horse to water...). There is a lot of dedication to playing but a lack of "Softball Smarts" as I call them. We are 4-6 (out of 13 games) this season. We had a DH last night and lost both games against two of the top teams in our league (5-2, only because I had to pull my LF during 1 inning because she was near passing out from the heat - they scored all 5 runs this inning, and 5-4 in extra innings after making a very solid comeback). Dedication can't be argued, but intangibles can be. It's something as a 3rd year coach I'm trying everyday to improve on.

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Don't you have a take sign?!

Yes. On top of that, they are told to lay off the first pitch to get an idea for where the strike zone is and what the P's speed is. What I give and what gets done with it are usually two different scenarios. I just have a group of girls that wants to hit - sometimes it's a blessing, others it's a curse.

gdc03120 said:

Yes. On top of that, they are told to lay off the first pitch to get an idea for where the strike zone is and what the P's speed is..

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IMO, this is bad general advice to tell the batter to take the first pitch no matter what. Every batter's personal hitting zone is different and if they see a pitch in their zone that they can drive, they should be going after that pitch. That may be the only good pitch they see during that particular at bat. Add in the fact that one of the goals of a good pitcher is to throw a first pitch strike which increases their odds in getting the batter out. If I as a pitching coach see a pattern of your taking the first pitch, guess what pitch I'm calling?

Also, if a batter fouls off the first pitch, won't that also give them a gauge of the speed of the pitch and they can adjust the next pitch as you used in your example.

Please don't ever tell your players to take the first pitch UNLESS there is another game strategy reason such as a straight steal, pitcher just walked the previous batter on 4 straight pitches, etc.

I normally only do this for their first at-bat. After that, they SHOULD have seen enough to know what to do. The problem is - my girls are a very erratic bunch. Through ALL of the practices we've had, I've got some who'll swing at a first pitch in the dirt and let 3 straight perfect pitches go down the middle. I don't have a single lady that has any sense of consistency in her hitting (at least in a positive way - I have some who consistently swing at high pitches, then complain to me when they have 2 Ks per game). I'd rather they focus on being disciplined at the plate and becoming more selective with their pitch choice than to be hungry and swing for the same of contacting the ball. Maybe I'm old-fashoined or twisted in my thinking, but I'd rather them sacrifice their first pitch (with there being a 50/50 shot of a strike) vs. anything else.

GOINGDEEP said:

First of all, I hate timed games. But it is what it is.



I'm going to mimic CB. This is the only thing I see, that should have been handled differently. Yes we all get caught up in the excitement of the game, so let's not focus on a minor mistake. But, it's not your call to declare "ball game". As coaches we "ask" for the time, we ask "is that game blue"? But the official call should always come from the umpire, before any action of a coach or team. ( line up )

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GDC,

I'm not trying to justify the opposing coach's response. But having read all 3 pages, and in particular your response to the above quote ("I think that's absolutely fair enough to state/recognize. Being happy for my girls pulling out a win is something I won't apologize about to any coach...", to me, at least, it seems like you're either avoiding the [implied] question, or are posting to reinforce your opinion that you've done nothing wrong.

When I picture the above scenario in my head as you described it, I see a coach who's more afraid of losing (by having another inning) than happy for winning. Again, I can only assume the situation happened as you described, but based off that, I don't think it's unreasonable for even unbiased/unaffiliated spectators to see your behavior in a not-quite-positive manner. B/C what I would have seen is a coach assuming he's above the umpire ("Then that's game"), plus a coach who felt the need to instruct us on basic math "started at 6:02 plus 1:45 makes 7:47", as well as a coach who may have been a little presumptive by not waiting for the umpire to actually do his/her job and call the game "then had my girls line up."

No one's expecting you to apologize for being happy for pulling out a last second win. But you also haven't denied that for all intents and purposes, YOU told the ump the game was over, then didn't wait for any confirmation before having the team line up to shake hands. Based on what we know, NONE OF THIS JUSTIFIES THE OTHER COACHES EMAIL TO YOU, but I think you need to realize that this is one of those all-too-frequent times where perception trumps reality, and that the actions of all parties involved could be improved upon in the future.

Respectfully written in the hopes that the above is taken as constructive and not a flaming criticism!

No flames needed or taken. Too many wildfires burning across the land as it is. To respond to a couple of your points:

gdc03120 said:

They typically just use their cell phone vs. a stopwatch or something like that. I record all of the times in my scorebook in pen just so I can't be accused of cheating or making things up. I wasn't per se telling the umpire the game was over. I was telling my girls the game is over based on what the ump said and what I had recorded in my book. If I was wrong, I would expect the umpire to tell me.

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I'm not a coach who is afraid of losing. I'm currently coaching a team that sits at 4-7 (who should truthfully be 6-5 if not for a few mental lapses here and there), that has gone a combined 1-18-1 in the past 2 seasons. Winning is what we all strive for as coaches, but there are bigger lessons to be taken from each game for the athletes and for us leaders. I have umpired youth baseball/softball for 12 years, and I would not presume to put myself over a coach, so in the same token I would not put myself above an official for the same logic. I'm not saying that, at any point, I didn't potentially do something wrong - the intention of this post was more to ask about if anything could be seen as unsportsmanlike given how the game ended according to the rules. I've been on the losing end of games where teams have snuck away with wins against us, and in this case it could be argued we did the same thing. No negativity taken - I'd rather be critiqued to be better than to be what I call "cupcaked" over what I do wrong.

Truthfully, I thought about this post Monday evening when we (4-6) were playing the top team in our league (8-1). We came out flat, no real energy or momentum to play. I even sent my girls on a small jog in between innings (that I probably should've waited to do until after the game was over) because they weren't cheering/following directions in the dugout (at least half weren't, anyway). By the time the score was about 13-3 or so, the opposing coach was having his girls bunt all over (behind their backs) and it was turning into a sideshow. I thought to myself, "I wonder if this is karma for the XXXX game that the post was about". I even told my girls, "I haven't seen us disrespected like that in a long time, but that doesn't excuse our play to allow it to happen."