Crash course in dropped-third strike, full stealing 12U town travel

dinogirl · May 23, 2016

I am assistant coach for a relatively inexperienced 12U town travel team. We just found out that tournament we are playing in this weekend is using full high-school rules, including unlimited stealing and dropped third, two things most of these girls have never seen before. While I understand the rules, I spent most of the club season explaining and re-explaining to the parents, so my guess is that it isn't going to be easy to teach the kids.

My daughter plays club and pitches and plays infield. She knows how to handle the rules offensively and defensively no problem. There is one other girl on the team in the same boat. After that there is another coach's daughter who is pretty with it and he'll make sure she gets it. The rest have no idea how to deal with dropped third, delayed steals, etc.

I know it won't be pretty, but any great ideas on how to give these girls some basic instruction on handling it? Offensively is fine -- we'll just have them run to first if they strikeout regardless of the situation. Defensively I am at a loss. Most of these girls don't even understand that they can get a double play on a caught fly with runners off the base.

I am considering putting my own daughter behind the plate to catch, even though she's not a catcher. Frankly, we don't really have a 'catcher' in that sense and at least she knows the rules. The other coach's daughter (also a pitcher) is happy to do the same when she's not pitching. Is this how you would play it or would you try to teach the rules to one of the less skilled girls who typically catch? I feel like it will be so overwhelming for them that they won't want to do it. Those girls typically drop 50% of all of the pitches, balls or strikes.

This is the only time we will face these rules this season. After that we start summer town travel with rules more appropriate for their skill level. So it's a one shot deal.

I fear it might be a blood bath regardless, but if anyone has any experience with transitioning girls to these rules, I'd love to hear something that worked!

quincy · May 23, 2016

One thing is defensively get someone on 2nd after a walk, go back to her position after the runner stops or retreats to 1st. That will stop some of the games.

Offensively dropped 3rd strike is harder then it seems, do not pull all your hair out. Remind the batter after 2 strikes but still expect a lot of slow or no starts running to 1st.

Defensively steal home can be a dangerous play, work with your pitchers and hope none of them get run over.

djcarter1966 · May 23, 2016

Well at 12U you should be playing dropped third strike and normal stealing rules, even in rec.

The catcher and 1B are really the main ones that need to understand the rules, although everyone should. Just spend a little time every practice going over things with the catcher and others at practices, use situational drills.

Also don't be afraid to cue her from the dugout, "OK remember drop we throw" or if their is someone on first "OK remember runner on first we are not throwing on a drop" or "OK remember two outs we are going to first on a drop". Other thing is always make sure she jumps up and tags the runner if they are not running there is no need to risk a throw when the batters still in the box.

Sparky Guy · May 23, 2016

What I do with the younger players is make the rule as simple as possible for them.

Dropped 3rd is in effect ALL the time EXCEPT when there are less than 2 outs and there is a runner on 1st base.

Make them say it out loud several times. Then work different scenarios with the catchers and 1st basemen. They MUST know the rule. The hard part is making sure the catcher and 1st baseman know they can use in the orange bag on a ball in foul territory.

As for running after every K. It can become grating on the umpire and they may stop it. Teach them the rule. Let them know constantly throughout the game if it's on or not. By the end of the weekend you'll find them yelling it out to everyone.

smddad · May 23, 2016

I recommend you don't put your daughter behind the dish. Your catcher has to learn sooner or later. All great catchers were once naive and had to learn the rule the hard way. Work on it a bit before the tournament and explain the rules. It doesn't come up often enough to change your defense or to worry too much about.

Good luck and have fun!

Eric F · May 23, 2016

quincy said:
Offensively dropped 3rd strike is harder then it seems, do not pull all your hair out. Remind the batter after 2 strikes but still expect a lot of slow or no starts running to 1st.

Truth. The players on my DD's 12U TB team sometimes forget to run on a D3K. These are skilled players who all have been playing under the rule for 3-4 years.

PlayPerfect · May 24, 2016

The only reason kids don't get it is because of bad coaching. I make I sure I teach a "new rule" at every practice. Kids love to learn. I always teach and explain why that way makes sense. My style of coaching relies on every kid to listen to my every word. They learn constantly that way. I always reinforce my teaching by asking the kids questions. "Why does that make sense?" What if the bases are loaded with two outs? What if the bases are loaded and no outs? Why is the uncaught third not in effect? Why is the IF rule applied ONLY when there is a force at 3rd? Why isn't it in affect with two outs? Why would a catcher drop a third strike on purpose? Why would a fielder drop an easy fly on purpose? Why is it smart if a batter swings at a wild pitch on purpose when they have 2 strikes? It keeps them involved, interested and constantly thinking and on their toes.

Also, if you as a coach don't know the answer to every one of these questions, you need to step up your game. Seriously...How can you teach a sport if you don't KNOW the sport?

At the end of practice and after you've taught the rule, make them go home and research each rule on the internet and come back and tell you why the rule makes sense. They will never have to be taught this again. It will be second nature. And you WILL win a game because of it, guaranteed. Also, assign the kids to explain to their parents what each rule is and why it makes sense.

Our league starts IF flies and uncaught thirds at 12U. I teach the "uncaught third" and the Infield Fly rule on the second and third practice of every season, regardless of age group. Both of these rules follow the same logic. The defense can not trick the offense into a double play and then you explain how they could if these rules weren't in effect.. Also, baseball theory dictates that to record an out on a third strike, there must be certain skills performed by the defense and that includes pitching, recording a strike and the catcher actually catching the ball. The uncaught third was instilled after defenses wised up and dropped the third strike on purpose to create easy double plays.

Now, by game one of 12U, we know the rule cold but we still need to remind them that it is in effect. Even in high school, we still remind them when its effect. I use the term "lemons"... you need to squeeze it. If the catcher squeezes that third strike and doesn't let it hit the ground, we got an out. On offense, we use the same term. "Lemons". It doesn't remind the opponent its in effect, it just reminds us. I guarantee...you do this...you WILL win a game because of it.

As sparky said., "Dropped 3rd is in effect ALL the time EXCEPT when there are less than 2 outs and there is a runner on 1st base", then he made them recite it out loud. I don't recommend you do this. Just make sure they can visualize it and explain it to their parents. Then you are set.

But in a nutshell, I would describe it THIS way.... the uncaught third is ALWAYS in effect with two outs. If less than two outs, its only in effect if first base in empty.

PlayPerfect · May 24, 2016

I also completely disagree that only the 1B and catcher need to KNOW this rule. EVERY kid on the team needs to know this rule.

YOCOACH · May 24, 2016

Defensively, it's important that the entire team understands the rules and especially so for the catcher. The catcher also needs to be aware of the number of outs, BR positions, game situations etc. The team does too but the Catcher must be on top of everything and keep the defense aware of the plays to be made, where to throw the ball and so on.

On strike 3 for the Catcher, Squeeze-Tag-Throw in order of importance. Squeeze and catch strike 3 if possible. This a must understand point for the catcher. They need to catch the pitch in the air delivered from the pitcher's hand. If the ball hits the dirt either before or after hitting the mitt, it then becomes a D3K. If it's less than 2 outs and no one on first or there are 2 outs, tag the batter if possible. If not, throw to first.

Stealing...If there's a baserunner heading to first make sure 2 is covered otherwise the smart coach will send them on at full tilt for a free base. If a BR is on a base, the next base needs to be covered every play. If the BR steals, fielders need to be yelling she's going and catcher needs to come up throwing. Also, watch for a big lead off by the lead runner. This is often times indicative of a delay steal.

There's so much more to it than that but there's the short version.

Offensively, If they're swinging at strike 3 they're running. Leave it up to your 1st base coach to stop them under the appropriate situations so the umps don't get upset with your team.

Cannonball · May 24, 2016

PlayPerfect said:
The only reason kids don't get it is because of bad coaching. I make I sure I teach a "new rule" at every practice. Kids love to learn. I always teach and explain why that way makes sense. My style of coaching relies on every kid to listen to my every word. They learn constantly that way. I always reinforce my teaching by asking the kids questions. "Why does that make sense?" What if the bases are loaded with two outs? What if the bases are loaded and no outs? Why is the uncaught third not in effect? Why is the IF rule applied ONLY when there is a force at 3rd? Why isn't it in affect with two outs? Why would a catcher drop a third strike on purpose? Why would a fielder drop an easy fly on purpose? Why is it smart if a batter swings at a wild pitch on purpose when they have 2 strikes? It keeps them involved, interested and constantly thinking and on their toes.

Also, if you as a coach don't know the answer to every one of these questions, you need to step up your game. Seriously...How can you teach a sport if you don't KNOW the sport?

At the end of practice and after you've taught the rule, make them go home and research each rule on the internet and come back and tell you why the rule makes sense. They will never have to be taught this again. It will be second nature. And you WILL win a game because of it, guaranteed. Also, assign the kids to explain to their parents what each rule is and why it makes sense.

Our league starts IF flies and uncaught thirds at 12U. I teach the "uncaught third" and the Infield Fly rule on the second and third practice of every season, regardless of age group. Both of these rules follow the same logic. The defense can not trick the offense into a double play and then you explain how they could if these rules weren't in effect.. Also, baseball theory dictates that to record an out on a third strike, there must be certain skills performed by the defense and that includes pitching, recording a strike and the catcher actually catching the ball. The uncaught third was instilled after defenses wised up and dropped the third strike on purpose to create easy double plays.

Now, by game one of 12U, we know the rule cold but we still need to remind them that it is in effect. Even in high school, we still remind them when its effect. I use the term "lemons"... you need to squeeze it. If the catcher squeezes that third strike and doesn't let it hit the ground, we got an out. On offense, we use the same term. "Lemons". It doesn't remind the opponent its in effect, it just reminds us. I guarantee...you do this...you WILL win a game because of it.

As sparky said., "Dropped 3rd is in effect ALL the time EXCEPT when there are less than 2 outs and there is a runner on 1st base", then he made them recite it out loud. I don't recommend you do this. Just make sure they can visualize it and explain it to their parents. Then you are set.

But in a nutshell, I would describe it THIS way.... the uncaught third is ALWAYS in effect with two outs. If less than two outs, its only in effect if first base in empty.

This was a little bit tough on a member who came here for help! I'm betting your players as well as yourself will get caught up in rules that you don't know once in a while.

Crash course in dropped-third strike, full stealing 12U town travel

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