umpire god complex (I'm gonna get blasted) can o worms? check.

coach james said:

your partially right.... $40 per game, each game is on average 90 min., plus the rechalk or wet down time between games equals more like $20 per hour.
High School games are paying about $50 for HP and $30 for the bases, plus its through the week and not on a weekend.

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Not around here. Your umpires rechalk and wet the infield???????? They admin the coaches meeting and call the game. I've never seen an ump do anything else while we played all over Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida (northern) and while in Colorado.

That price quote was for a 60 minute DD or FB. If they go to 75 minutes the price usually goes up a little. 90 minute games also go up - just more.

Most everyone has to drive to and from work and provide their food and drink during their work time.

Not bashing blue here, I just think they get paid fair enough for what they do. I would hope they would take a little incentive to learn the rules of what they do. Just like anything else there are good and bad.

Ask these 3 questions about the quality of workers in any profession:

What is the demand for workers with this skill?
What are the working conditions?
How difficult is the job itself to master?

There is a huge demand these days for officials for youth sporting events, not just softball. So hard to fill all the positions. The working conditions are not particularly attractive. Aside from money, it's largely thankless. Baseball/softball umpires are verbally harassed or bothered (at least where they can hear it) more than probably any other official. Not just everybody is going to find the job rewarding. And finally, it's hard to be a good umpire. Takes lots of skill, training and experience.

Understanding those dynamics, I've not found umpires to be a significant concern of mine during some 8-10 years of following my daughter through rec and travel ball as both coach and sideline parent. Makes me really appreciate those that are very good at it, and there are many. Not saying this discussion should not be had. Would love to see the qualify of officiating get better. But it's not that hard to see why it is what it is.

cuzmail said:

coach james said:

your partially right.... $40 per game, each game is on average 90 min., plus the rechalk or wet down time between games equals more like $20 per hour.
High School games are paying about $50 for HP and $30 for the bases, plus its through the week and not on a weekend.

Click to expand...

Not around here. Your umpires rechalk and wet the infield???????? They admin the coaches meeting and call the game. I've never seen an ump do anything else while we played all over Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida (northern) and while in Colorado.

That price quote was for a 60 minute DD or FB. If they go to 75 minutes the price usually goes up a little. 90 minute games also go up - just more.

Most everyone has to drive to and from work and provide their food and drink during their work time.

Not bashing blue here, I just think they get paid fair enough for what they do. I would hope they would take a little incentive to learn the rules of what they do. Just like anything else there are good and bad.

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No, umpires don't rechalk or wet the infield. They're on break getting a free soda from the concessions during the 30 min. break between games. Lol

I feel like there are more bad than good ones. We had one recently where the ball was hit foul, down the 3rd base line. It was well outside fair territory. Our third baseman picked up the ball, didn't even attempt to make a play because it was so obviously foul. Ump called it fair, because 3B had one foot in fair territory when she picked up the ball. I'm sorry, what? Is that the rule anywhere?

That's just one of many examples. It's pretty sad.

Umpires in our area are getting more than $50 at the HS level. In fact, at least at our school, they were getting $65 a couple of years ago.

There are umpires that have the "god complex." That type person is in every occupation so it isn't specific to umpires. The vast majority of umpires are good people who love the game and want to serve the community while they make some money. My sister married a guy that was a long time umpire. He bragged when he found out that I was her brother on how many times he had threatened to throw me out of games. He went on to brag about "the big calls" in games I coached. It was like he was the star and everyone else was there for him. I disliked him then and I dislike him now. He knows it and stays the heck away from me.

One other umpire that I know of has to be the "show" at every game. He drives me crazy. For example, he bragged about a call where our runner going to second was called out for making a sound as the 2B tried to turn a double play. The winning run had scored and the 2B never threw the ball. He called our runner out at 1st because he said our runner intentionally yelled to break up the double play. Our runner had a strawberry the side of New Jersey on his butt and had blood showing through his pants and the umpire knew it. My player "yelled" or really grunted loudly because it hurt to slide. We lost in extra innings and another team went to state. Our pitcher lost his first game ever and so had a career of 30 -1 because this guy had to be the show. I was sitting at a restaurant one day with some other coaches and this guy was eating with a bunch of his friends. He bragged about the call and, imo, was trying to hack me off. So, I helped him out of his chair.

I've coached for way over 30 years. I mentioned 2 umpires. I'll take the majority of umpires every time!!!

CoogansBluff said:

You speak of umpires having a god complex. And some umpires (and coaches) probably do have this trait.

Another stereotype is the coach who always thinks his/her team is getting screwed more than the next guy (quote above).

If it's true that you've lost more than your share, and that you're frequently in games where the umpires are not calling it both ways (targeting your team), what explanation do you have for that? Why is your team the victim of poor umpiring more than other teams?

You ask some good questions. I don't take issue to your post. Just curious about this aspect.

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Coogans, I completely agree with your first two statements.

When I say my fair share, I'm referencing a generality that all coaches have lost that 1 run game by a bad call. I will never NOT take responsibility for ANY loss as a head coach, clearly we try to do our job to avoid the situation of ever letting the "one bad call" end the game.

I've only felt targeted a few times (3 to 4), usually at games we travel to against home teams that have a grudge against us. I dont feel we are alwsys a victim, see responsibility statement above.
I.E.....
Playing in a championship game against the home town team, bottom of last inning, we're at bat, running win on 2, runner on 1, 2 outs.
2 umpires, BU behind SS, PU,behind home. Batter hits hard ground ball between pitcher and second baseman, ball ends up in outfield 40 feet from CFielder. Runner on 2 left on pitch, SS steps into runners base path, and body checks our runner, knocking her to ground. Ball gets thrown to 3 before our runner can get up ( injured wrist on fall), injured runner called out on force, game over. The BU said he never saw a collision, no obstruction call. (The ball was obviously no where near the ss when ss stepoed into base path).

Example 2:
Not a game decider. But this just happened the other day, blues chatting about games for next day, BU said he didnt have anything scheduled, because he refused to sign contract. You see where this is going....we were playing home town team, Umpire from same town.
PU calls ball on slapper with 2 outs. BU comes running in from behind first YELLING "batters out on bunt attempt, she never broke her wrists"
I protested, (because we all know wrist breaking does not define a slap, and this wasnt the BU responsibility to address without being asked by PU), and was told to go back to dugout by BU. PU never said a word, or asked for BU input. Batter out.


I started this thread for the great dialog I'm seeing, so thank you to all those that have responded.

I would glady pay more for tourneys if we were guranteed fairly, both ways, and accurately called games. Opinions on this?

Does PGF have issues like this? Other big time tourney circuits? We'll be stepping up to PGF next year, and I hope we see more consistent officiating.

Most umpires are good, but every once in awhile I will run into one that reminds me of Paul Blart in "Mall Cop"....

bills9r said:

I would glady pay more for tourneys if we were guranteed fairly, both ways, and accurately called games. Opinions on this?

Does PGF have issues like this? Other big time tourney circuits? We'll be stepping up to PGF next year, and I hope we see more consistent officiating.

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Opinions.. sure. You (and I mean you and several others on this thread) are going to feel that you are never going get this because you are under the misconception that some umpires intentionally are calling it one way. While something may unconsciously affect a call (because everyone has unconscious biases and are human), there are as close to ZERO officials that ever, ever do this (unless you have been a total *#*#* and caused it).

You may be getting what you describe already, but while you continue to go to games with a preconceived opinion and expectation of what is happening, you are more biased about this than you are claiming the officials might be.

I have umpired 4 different sports over 30 years at all levels and in that time I have seen an umpire consciously favor a team a total of 4 times. 99.99999% of officials go into games hoping to call a great, fair game no matter the teams.

I am not saying you are not getting crappy, unprepared umpires - you may well be. I am not saying you aren't getting bad calls. But they aren't changing umpires between innings, so the other team is getting them as well.

Until your are willing to change your mental attitude, it wont matter how much you pay. Because basically the only way this would work which would make you happy would be for you to pay for calls to go your way.

(and yes as you go through the ranks you will see better and better umpires, whose job gets harder and harder as the game is faster and more things happen quicker and things you don't see in younger ages happen all the time - which means all the same issues happen just on different types of plays)


Edit: Adding one thing> The ONLY umpires I can't stand are the ones who are not out there trying. If they are hustling, making position, and doing the best job they are capable of (just like I ask of our players) then I find I can deal with lesser umpires much easier even if they make a poor call. That may be because of my background of umpiring - you get into position, you use your mechanics correctly and the call is much easier. It is when you half-rear it, you are disrespecting the game and it is something under their direct control on game day.

If you are sure the umpire has kicked a rule, there is only 1 word you need to know. PROTEST

bills9r said:

Does PGF have issues like this? Other big time tourney circuits? We'll be stepping up to PGF next year, and I hope we see more consistent officiating.

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Anecdotal so FWIW - Surf City is run by the same guys that run PGF - and I've seen just as many lazy, looking to toss someone prima donnas there as anywhere else...there is a finite supply of umpires...even PGF/Surf City has to take a few boneheads...last tourney, the BU almost steamrolled the 2B TWICE when he failed to button hook on a fly ball to the outfield...