Produce good softball players, not good robots.

I knew a couple of parents who moved their kids from a team in the program I used to be a part of (not from my team, a younger team) to one that won a lot of games because they had a very dominant pitcher. One of the girls was a pitcher so I really didn't understand the move for her. She was good, but this other kid was throwing 60+ mph at 12U. I clocked her myself with a Jugs gun.

But they made the move because they wanted the trophies and thrill of winning. I think both of the girls who moved got less playing time than they would have with their old team. And the new team wasn't particularly known for developing its players. They just rode the great pitcher.

Made no sense to me, but everyone has their priorities.

FP26 said:

No argument here, but you almost make it sound like it is impossible to do both. I disagree.

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No, I don't think it's impossible to do both, and a good coach and manager strikes a reasonable balance. I do my best to be fair, but I believe that practice is where most of the "development" takes place. I tell my players that I will work them in positions during games that they show me they can handle during practice. Strangely, some here seem to look down their nose at winning ball games, like doing that somehow sells one's soul to the dark side. I suspect that, in reality, they're all working to win when and where they can, and some try chalk up recurring losses up to "player development".

Strike2 said:

No, I don't think it's impossible to do both, and a good coach and manager strikes a reasonable balance. I do my best to be fair, but I believe that practice is where most of the "development" takes place. I tell my players that I will work them in positions during games that they show me they can handle during practice. Strangely, some here seem to look down their nose at winning ball games, like doing that somehow sells one's soul to the dark side. I suspect that, in reality, they're all working to win when and where they can, and some try chalk up recurring losses up to "player development".

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Then, for the most part, we are in agreement. I have no issue with winning, or trying to win provided a few rules are followed. Here are two rules that I feel are important. Others may disagree.

1) Play at the level you belong. The friend I mentioned before is involved in a program that won over 90% of its games last year. They were moved to class A mid-season by one of the orgs they played for. They promptly pulled out of that org and re-scheduled the rest of their tournaments with other orgs so that they could remain a class B team. IMO, this team was more concerned about the wins than about development. I believe the girls would have been developed more by moving up to A.

2) Play your players. I have another friend that I would classify as more of a recruiter than a coach. He really doesn't do much to "develop" his players. His method to win games is to constantly bring in pick up players and bench his regulars. Then he tries to sell this to the parents by saying "look at the trophy we won". Then at the end of each summer, he wonders why 75% of his team moves to other teams and he has to rebuild.

In both cases above, these people are involved in successful organizations, if you go by the win/loss percentage. But neither is a team I want my daughter playing for. JMHO.

Strike2 said:

No, I don't think it's impossible to do both, and a good coach and manager strikes a reasonable balance. I do my best to be fair, but I believe that practice is where most of the "development" takes place. I tell my players that I will work them in positions during games that they show me they can handle during practice. Strangely, some here seem to look down their nose at winning ball games, like doing that somehow sells one's soul to the dark side. I suspect that, in reality, they're all working to win when and where they can, and some try chalk up recurring losses up to "player development".

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Actually it is games where the critical development takes place. To sluggers point you may be developing players physical skills in practice but do they have a deep understanding of the game? What I am seeing is many of the so called "successful" organizations that win lots of games and are seen at all the top tournaments fail miserably to prepare their players for what lies ahead. The two are not mutually exclusive but few teams seem to do well at both. Many of these players are great athletes with lots of trophies but only have a superficial knowledge of the game. As a result they face a steep learning curve in college and some never catch up. These players primary role in college is often shagging foul balls.

well this thread makes me feel better. Team I had for 4 yrs I spent a lot of time talking why, look for, think ahead. We were not great finished low and high some but mostly in the middle but all my girls are on HS teams with several starting as fresh and soph on varsity. DD made me proud with her mind the other night. Starting pitcher got pulled tight game late inning. Runners 2nd and 3rd 4 hole up 2 outs. Missed close on corners count 3-0. Coach calls FB middle she throws ball 4 inside. Lose game. On the way home she goes "dad there's no way I'm gonna throw her on the middle with first open and 2 out". I just smiled looked at wife who had a grin and drove on home.

DD had a coach at 14U that said flat out he didn't care about the record or trophies. He worked hard to develop the players, coming to practices with a plan every day that maximized reps and kept each kid busy. All parents bought in the first month but when we didn't win tons of games about 1/2 became disgruntled.

Fast forward. Most of the kids from that team play 18U now, but those that stayed with the coach for year 2 are on much better 18U teams with brighter outlooks to play in college.

DD likes to say she is a student of the game and I have to smile and agree.

InsidePitch said:

DD had a coach at 14U that said flat out he didn't care about the record or trophies. He worked hard to develop the players, coming to practices with a plan every day that maximized reps and kept each kid busy. All parents bought in the first month but when we didn't win tons of games about 1/2 became disgruntled.

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A good TB team should strive to win 50-70% of their games. If they are winning more than 70% they need to move up a classification or an age group. If they are winning less than 50% they may want to move down a classification. The best way to improve is to play teams that are better than yours.

sluggers said:

The best example is the routine double play ball to 2B. The SS covers, the 2B flips the ball to the SS, and then...the SS holds the ball. Why? Because the coach is afraid the kid will throw the ball away.

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We practice turning double plays in practice, but we also teach our players to be "smart". With most girls running a 3.0 second home-to-first, it is difficult to turn a 6-4-3 or 4-6-3 double play. Do we want them to try - yes, but if the runner is already at the bag, why make the throw? We play three types of tournaments - some to get better, some to win, and showcases. We encourage our players to "take a chance" in tournaments we are playing to get better and showcases. In tournaments we are playing to win we need smart plays, not "high risk, low reward" chances. Smart players know the difference and adjust.

I was curious:

Double Plays per Game | DI Softball Statistics - NCAA.com

Top double play turning college teams do between .5 and .8 per game...I imagine they attempt twice that many...

Does that feel like a little or lot?

I thought there would be significantly fewer, ie, several teams have 20 double plays already this season...

sluggers said:

There is a strange problem developing. Kids have better skills than ever, but kids know less about the game than ever.

They can throw the ball, hit the ball and catch the ball, but they don't have a clue how to *play* the game.

I place the blame firmly on coaches. There is a tremendous of micromanagement in softball. Coaches try to control everything the kids do.

The best example is the routine double play ball to 2B. The SS covers, the 2B flips the ball to the SS, and then...the SS holds the ball. Why? Because the coach is afraid the kid will throw the ball away.

(The solution to this is pretty simple: (1) teach the SS how to throw the ball, (2) Teach the 1B how to catch the ball and (3) teach RF how to backup. )

Yet, go to the old ball park, and you can watch a dozen 14U softball games without one team attempting a 4-6-3 or 6-4-3 double play. It is crazy.

Do you teach cuts? Do you teach relays? Do you teach the players (not the coaches) to direct traffic on defense?

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I couldn't agree with you more. I see it on base running as well, players don't know to take a peek at the ball, to round without being told, to go for 2 unless the coach tells her to, to go from 1st to third...

There are too many coaches out there who play that nintendo game, the player isn't supposed to do anything unless the coach yells it to her. If only there was a hand held controller to truly satisfy some of these coaches.