Cut or keep?

Slappers · Jul 25, 2014

SCDad said:
There are so many powers a coach has to make a player hustle.

First, focus on her game behavior. When she does not hustle ... immediately put her on the bench for that game. Explain to her carefully, with no one else around, that she needs to hustle all the time.

The reason she does not hustle is because no one has made her accountable for demonstrating the ramifications to not hustling. That is your job Coach. It should not be dramatic. No hustle ... bench ... next game. Rinse ands repeat.

Why a coach of a 'C' level team has problems with this. Your job is to teach her to hustle. Do your job. You have all the tools. Do your job.

Take her money. Do your job. If SHE chooses to sit the bench, after you have demonstrated the outcome every time. Then her parents will wonder why they are spending their money.

I have the most difficulty with coaches who refuse to use the absolute powers they have, use them every time, explain to the player exactly why, so that this female athlete (teenage) completely understands. And then want to cut her, and blame the player.

Who says I haven't done these things? What matter is it that I coached a 'C' level team? So it is my fault that doing those things is not enough motivation for her. You can only teach those that want to be taught. The question is when do you give up trying. So instead of cutting her I am supposed to just keep on belittling her in front of the team using my "absolute powers" because that is the right way to do it.

I am glad you can take things out of context and judge me and my coaching abilities by a thread on an internet forum.

Jose - I don't agree with letting her self select out. They probably won't get that opportunity in the real world. In the real world she gets fired or whatever, probably not bullied by her boss like someone else thinks I should do..

BobInMadison · Jul 25, 2014

Slappers,

One of my daughters has a great deal of talent in softball, or so I have been told, but not that much desire. She did have a talk with the couch of her TB team once, and at the end decided to leave the team, and even quit SB for a while. Not pleasant, but that had to be done. This same coach is the PC for my youngest, so I have absolutely no hard feelings towards him (even if DD #1 claims he is evil).

That was just too intense a situation for her. She went from 12u rec league to 16u TB in less than a year, and this was all within a couple of years after she first started playing.

Anyway, I was going to recommend you have a heart-to-heart with this girl, see where her head was. You did that. Good for you.

I have never coached, and I have only once been in a situation where I had to fire someone. That is painful, and I am a firm believer in the second chance, and a plan to get better. Back in the days when I had the power to fire people, only a couple of people got to the point where we had to work out a plan, and one of those came up with a plan himself, and kept it.

The best thing about this situation: you can sleep at night. You know you did what was best for this girl, best for your team, and best for your friendship.

Maybe you should have a talk with the parents of this girl, and make sure they are on the same page. If not, that could cause HUGE problems for you, for her, and for the team.

Ken Krause · Jul 25, 2014

I was talking to a coach of a team I've done some work with whose daughter also happens to be a student of mine. They were facing a similar situation so I thought I'd let you know how that one turned out.

The girl in question had a bad attitude. She always had some under her breath comment to make whenever any coach was working with the team - including me, who was a guest coach. My gut feel was she had some issues at home and she was lashing out in practice as a result. Still, I found it annoying and a potential hazard to the team. She was even worse when I wasn't there, from what I hear. I advised a couple of the coaches they needed to address the situation or risk having her take the entire team down with her.

The coaching staff elected to have a conversation with her to give her a chance to straighten up, just as Slappers is discussing. They sat down with her, told her the attitude was unacceptable, and if it persisted she would be cut.

When I asked one of those coaches about her recently he said she went from problem to one of the best kids to have on the team. She started hustling, and turned into one of their better and more consistent players. Instead of trying to show how tough she was she became a great teammate and pleasure to be around. (She also started seeing a counselor around the time of the talk, so clearly her issues were bigger than not wanting to play softball.)

At whatever nationals they just returned from, when some of the girls clearly didn't want to be there, this one performed well. She had several two-out RBI hits and played consistently I was told.

So yes, having a heart-to-heart with a player having issues can work. I was told the mother of that girl came up and thanked the coaching staff for giving her another chance to get her act together.

How far it carries in the future we don't know yet. But there's a chance those coaches may have helped that girl find a better path than the self-destructive one she was on. I certainly hope so.

sluggers · Jul 25, 2014

Ken's point is excellent--treat the kid like an adult.

This not a whole lot different than being a supervisor at a job. Suppose you have an employee that you have trained...so you have invested time and money in the employee. Suppose the employee is a good person, but isn't performing. What does a good supervisor do? You sit down with the employee and explain the situation...(i.e., I'm running a business. I understand you have problems. I sympathize with that. But I've got another X employees here that depend on this business making money, and upon you to do your job. If you can't do your job, I have to let you go for the sake of your co-workers. I'm willing to give you a chance to turn things around. But, you have to perform better.)

If they shape up, you keep them. If you don't, you cut them lose.

Slappers · Jul 31, 2014

Well, the situation has reached a head. She managed to improve for one practice. She then hurt her knee and I was given a doctors note saying she couldn't play softball for two weeks. OK. Not sure why I got a drs note as I'll take you at your word? Two things pushed me and my assistant over the edge. First was that even though her mom said she would bring her to practice to watch and just be a part of the team she did not show up but to one practice and that was after I emailed her to see how the player was doing. Secondly, she is late to every practice. In the fall, her mom griped about playing time and I explained that player has only been to 75% of the practices and is late to 75% of those.

New season is on hand and after our first practice the other night, I gathered the girls around and said being late will not be tolerated as will just not showing up. I receive an email from mom today saying that her DD should not be punished for being late when it is because of traffic or she got off late from work and she isn't old enough to drive. Out of the 14 players on the roster, only 2 can drive themselves.

She was put on notice at the player evaluations that this would not be accepted. Both DD and mom agreed. Apparently that was just the convenient thing to say as nothing has changed so we decided to let her go.

I bent over backwards to help her out. I can only do so much and she started to become a detriment to the team. It was time. It probably was time back in September but I can't say I didn't give it my best to help her out.

NorthMS · Jul 31, 2014

Slappers, at least you can sleep well at night knowing you gave her every chance. End the end, you probably did what was best for the whole team. Good luck.

josh · Jul 31, 2014

Slappers said:
I have heard grumbling a from players about her effort. I can't fathom how she isn't aware she isn't meeting standards. We've had multiple talks about it. It also doesn't set a good precedent if I let one get away with not trying and still gets game action.

Be clear, I think if you've been clear, the lesson of getting cut is the best thing you can do for this girl.

Huskerdu · Aug 1, 2014

Here is a letter I wrote to a family in this exact situation...Right after State, he came up to me and thanked me for crushing his daughter's dreams. She is a great, humble kid.

Dear R-,

R-, I was disappointed with our last interaction, but I need to talk to you in person or we can email.

It is probably clear that M- would have an increased opportunity to play and grow and be fulfilled as a player on another team. I wanted to send this to you before the tryout season passes.

It is always difficult at this time of the year to make decisions like this. I honestly didn't know during the off season if E- would play beyond 14U, but I saw her turn a corner in March. I have been internally waiting all year for M- to turn that corner and perhaps I am not the right coach to bring out the best in her. She is a great great kid, coachable, sweet spirit, and she has a ton of potential, there is no question about that. She should continue to play softball. I took her aside at the first of the year and then again at the halfway point and I said to her, "M-, I'd like to see you work hard to get better, you have to get better, I want you to always call for the ball to be hit to you, never have (what she and I called...ask her about it), an "Oh Crap" moment, and I want you to have confidence at the plate."

I am not sure what happened if there wasn't a match with the other girls I brought on the team or what, but she hit .160 for the season. The top 25% of our kids hit .400 or better. I can't begin to tell you how frustrated and worried I was when balls were hit to her and for whatever reason, they got by her, ticked off her glove, or she didn't pursue like I knew she could being the fastest girl on our team. I was praying for that switch to be flipped, and for her to turn that corner. I included you folks at the table in our parents discussion last year because I respect you and you were a tremendous help with our trips and fundraising and I will always and forever be grateful.

I will always believe in her in my heart of hearts and like I said, she has one of the best attitudes and she is one of the sweetest kids I have ever coached.

Please let me know your thoughts R-. I apologize for not being able to coach her up to her potential.

Bill

Amy in AZ. · Aug 1, 2014

I just had this problem this morning. It was the girl's second lesson with me. She is 13. She has not played softball and today she wanted to give up. I had a friend bring her equipment and i loaned her a glove. I was told that she wanted to make the 8th grade softball team. And i was told that she was a basketball and volleyball player.

And, of course, I see problems at home. The kids are yours, mine and ours. She spends 50% of her time in PHX at her dad's. So, I tried to make conversation and asked if she had talked to her dad about softball. She said "I guess."

OK. Enough of my problems. On Sunday, I am going to offer them their $$ back. I have never done that in the 25 years, that I have coached. But there is no need to continue, because she collapsed on the bench and said "this is too hard."

CoogansBluff · Aug 1, 2014

Huskerdu said:
Here is a letter I wrote to a family in this exact situation...Right after State, he came up to me and thanked me for crushing his daughter's dreams. She is a great, humble kid.

Dear R-,

R-, I was disappointed with our last interaction, but I need to talk to you in person or we can email.

It is probably clear that M- would have an increased opportunity to play and grow and be fulfilled as a player on another team. I wanted to send this to you before the tryout season passes.

It is always difficult at this time of the year to make decisions like this. I honestly didn't know during the off season if E- would play beyond 14U, but I saw her turn a corner in March. I have been internally waiting all year for M- to turn that corner and perhaps I am not the right coach to bring out the best in her. She is a great great kid, coachable, sweet spirit, and she has a ton of potential, there is no question about that. She should continue to play softball. I took her aside at the first of the year and then again at the halfway point and I said to her, "M-, I'd like to see you work hard to get better, you have to get better, I want you to always call for the ball to be hit to you, never have (what she and I called...ask her about it), an "Oh Crap" moment, and I want you to have confidence at the plate."

I am not sure what happened if there wasn't a match with the other girls I brought on the team or what, but she hit .160 for the season. The top 25% of our kids hit .400 or better. I can't begin to tell you how frustrated and worried I was when balls were hit to her and for whatever reason, they got by her, ticked off her glove, or she didn't pursue like I knew she could being the fastest girl on our team. I was praying for that switch to be flipped, and for her to turn that corner. I included you folks at the table in our parents discussion last year because I respect you and you were a tremendous help with our trips and fundraising and I will always and forever be grateful.

I will always believe in her in my heart of hearts and like I said, she has one of the best attitudes and she is one of the sweetest kids I have ever coached.

Please let me know your thoughts R-. I apologize for not being able to coach her up to her potential.

Bill

Very heartfelt email, and it's obvious you care about your players and parents. But I'm skeptical of one thing - Do you really believe in her, that she'll ever be a good player? I ask only because I've coached only one girl whose parents I felt I owed a more lengthy explanation for why I declined to take her back. Reason: I honestly didn't think she could play the level that the other girls were aspiring to play. I could blame it on me. I could pretend it was some mystery why was hitting .133. But IMO, she just didn't have it, never would. But that's a heckuva dilemma. Say you don't believe in her, or lie. You mention she's the fastest girl on the team, so maybe yours was different. Sounds like an athlete. Mine was not. Good kid. A scholar, but not an athlete.

Cut or keep?

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Slappers

Don't like labels

BobInMadison

Ken Krause

Administrator

sluggers

Super Moderator

Slappers

Don't like labels

NorthMS

josh

Huskerdu

With Purpose and Urgency

Amy in AZ.

CoogansBluff

Similar threads

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Share this page

Online statistics

Forum statistics