Beware the scary 10U players filling in in 12U

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Feb 3, 2011
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Wow. As a rec league coach, I would stay far away from your DD, if at all possible. That's not the kind of prima donna attitude I would want anywhere near my team or my DD. If you want to be on my team - even my lowly rec team - I will expect you to participate just as much as everyone else. If going to team practices, building camaraderie with teammates, and respecting the coaches is too much of a commitment, maybe you shouldn't bother with rec ball to get some extra reps in. It's taking away from the girls who actually want to be a part of the team.

Last year, my then-10yo pitched for 1 of the rec teams that had no pitcher. She wasn't pitching on her TB team, so it was an opportunity for her to help the league and get in some reps. She was not registered in the league and pitched 4 games for them when she was available.

This year, she's still on her TB team, but she's registered in the rec league and pitches when she's available, which ends up being about half the time. She attended 3 pre-season practices in order to meet and get to know her teammates, but she no longer practices with the team, which was the deal from the start. It's not about her being a prima donna, but about the fact that she's already practicing or playing 3 days a week with her TB team in addition to private lessons and basketball practice. During rec games, she rotates to the bench once per game just like everyone else.

As a rec coach, I'll gladly play shorthanded any day of the week, so long as I've got my top 5 hitters.
 
Feb 3, 2011
1,880
48
We were going to be short players today since some girls are on vacation on our 12U squad. I recruited some 10Us to fill in and after I got them to commit some parents of the 12Us said they were going to be in town after all so I wound up with a couple of extra players. I figured I'd just expand the roster to 11 and let the 10Us have some cuts against the better pitching (these are all star 10Us). As a courtesy I let the opposing coach know what I was doing, I even offered her the pick of the litter if she needed any players to fill out the roster (all our kids are on spring break right now so I figured she may be short).

She informed me that league rules dictate that if we have 8 then it is an official game so she would not approve of the 10Us being in the lineup and that we can only play 8.

Mind you that this is a small league that gets our asses kicked every all star season because they only play 11 games during their season and our pitching is low level at 10U. So our 10U batters really suffer because they just get walked all season then they have to try to figure out how to hit against real pitching in about 2 weeks during the summer.

no real point here except venting a little frustration at the narrow mindedness. So both teams will play with 8 players and we will let that extra playing time get wasted instead of using it on some girls that would love to play today.

No wonder our league is shrinking year by year. I know this is the last time I put up with this BS.

If you were an ASA league and depending on the rules of your association, this lady might've saved you a real hassle regarding summer all-star eligibility. According to our association office, for example, players who play up in rec during any portion of the season are no longer eligible for All-Stars in their age division. What a stupid rule. Upon further questioning at a higher level, though, it was discovered that players can play up and still be All-stars and play in B tournaments, but they would not be eligible for ASA 'B' Championship play in the lower age division that summer which, for us, would be the Association Championships and Western Nationals. Still, it's a stupid rule, but it's the opinion of the powers-that-be that a 10u player appearing in a 12u spring game would give that player a competitive advantage during the summer season.

The people who actually coach the game, however, know that an 'A' player is an 'A' player (yes, I know All-stars is technically 'B' in ASA, but I'm talking about the best players in most leagues) regardless of what team she's on.

Having said all that, play with 8 and get more at-bats for everyone else. You just have to hope no one gets hurt.
 
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
Most rec leagues have specific rules about whether or not you can have girls play up. The reason for this is because coaches are always trying to game the system to their advantage. Our local rec league allows younger players to play up when short handed but they have to bat last in the lineup and can't pitch or play the infield. It's both a safety issue as well as stopping coaches from bringing in a ringer from a lower division to pitch. I would coach your team under the rules the league has setup and not try to change the rules as you see fit and expect the opposing coach to acquiesce.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
Most rec leagues have specific rules about whether or not you can have girls play up. The reason for this is because coaches are always trying to game the system to their advantage. Our local rec league allows younger players to play up when short handed but they have to bat last in the lineup and can't pitch or play the infield. It's both a safety issue as well as stopping coaches from bringing in a ringer from a lower division to pitch. I would coach your team under the rules the league has setup and not try to change the rules as you see fit and expect the opposing coach to acquiesce.

You are right. I am a rule breaking, ringer recruiting monster that wants every advantage to win a regular season game. The opposing coach is an upright rule abiding paragon of virtue who stood up to me and thwarted my evil plan to field 9 girls to play a game of softball.
My most evil act was deciding to pitch #2 and #3 because they are sticking around for all stars and DD is not
And they need circle time while she gets plenty. I should be ashamed.
 
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
You are right. I am a rule breaking, ringer recruiting monster that wants every advantage to win a regular season game. The opposing coach is an upright rule abiding paragon of virtue who stood up to me and thwarted my evil plan to field 9 girls to play a game of softball.
My most evil act was deciding to pitch #2 and #3 because they are sticking around for all stars and DD is not
And they need circle time while she gets plenty. I should be ashamed.

JJ, I understand your frustration but believe me the rec leagues have rules for a reason because some coaches are trying to manipulate the system to their advantage. It didn't happen to be your younger DD that wanted to play up?:)

For example, DS plays baseball (PONY, Pinto A) 7-8 YOs. This season they wanted to try kid pitch the 1st two innings. Most of the kid pitchers throw hard and lots of strikes. It's generally three up and three down, even for the best batters. So some "genius" coaches decided that they were going to put their best batters at the end of the line-up so they would face coach pitch in the 3rd inning and score lots of runs. So the league had to institute a new rule that kid pitch was in the 3rd and 4th innings this way the coaches they figured would be less compelled to stack the end of their line-up and would place their best batters at the top of the order as one would expect. These type of situations happen all the time in youth sports. These coaches ruin it for all of us.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
Last year, my then-10yo pitched for 1 of the rec teams that had no pitcher. She wasn't pitching on her TB team, so it was an opportunity for her to help the league and get in some reps. She was not registered in the league and pitched 4 games for them when she was available.

This year, she's still on her TB team, but she's registered in the rec league and pitches when she's available, which ends up being about half the time. She attended 3 pre-season practices in order to meet and get to know her teammates, but she no longer practices with the team, which was the deal from the start. It's not about her being a prima donna, but about the fact that she's already practicing or playing 3 days a week with her TB team in addition to private lessons and basketball practice. During rec games, she rotates to the bench once per game just like everyone else.

As a rec coach, I'll gladly play shorthanded any day of the week, so long as I've got my top 5 hitters.

In hindsight, I can see that my previous response was based solely on my own experience, and a bit too harsh. Our league is currently blessed with a pretty deep talent pool (especially in 10U) and we don't have situations where we are struggling to find someone - anyone - that can pitch decently. I respect those who will do whatever it takes to keep the games going in less-than-ideal situations. I can see that sometimes this might require the situations described by you and SoAZDad. My apologies.
 
Jun 20, 2012
438
18
SoCal
EricF: I can see how you misinterpreted. The situation was, DD never signed up for the rec season discussed. The rec board EXPECTED her AND OTHERS to be back. When the board approached her (and my wife resigned 4 months prior but was still listed on the board because they didn't fill her position), they were way short on pitchers to compete with the other league's teams. So the league approached my DD, not the other way around.

I, for one, am very against this. The league needs to sink or swim with the players they have. What better opportunity is there for the league to develop other pitchers? Instead, they are being lazy and using your daughter as a crutch. Our league went through this a year ago, where all the top talent in the 12u group took off to form a TB team. It forced girls like my DD to step up their game and no longer be satisfied with playing with the dandelions in the outfield. We went 3-12 in games against other leagues. But the progression made by those girls over the course of the season set them up to make a good run in all-stars that bought them a berth in the state tournament, something that star-studded group of players from the previous season that left wasn't able to accomplish.

Now, this season, several of the leagues around us are experiencing the same problems we were last year. All their talent took off for TB, and they didn't spend enough time coaching up their lower level players. And rather than try to improve what they have, at least one league is doing as your league is doing: importing TB players to help them out during the regular season. I don't get wanting to win a regular rec season game that badly that you have to import talent from TB rather than using the opportunity to get your dedicated rec ball players more experience. What makes it even worse is because of stipulations like your daughter's, this league has now canceled several games with us and other leagues because their TB talent is unavailable (because they are at practice for their TB team). Ridiculous.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
JJ, I understand your frustration but believe me the rec leagues have rules for a reason because some coaches are trying to manipulate the system to their advantage. It didn't happen to be your younger DD that wanted to play up?:)

Not quite...she played up the previous game to fill that 9th spot. That coach was ok with it. This time around I had her on the list when we needed 4 girls to make a roster but she was the first one pulled off when girls started saying they could play. I told her that other 10us now get a turn. If the opposing coach had approved 1 player it would have not been my younger dd I added.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
JJ, I understand your frustration but believe me the rec leagues have rules for a reason because some coaches are trying to manipulate the system to their advantage. It didn't happen to be your younger DD that wanted to play up?:)

For example, DS plays baseball (PONY, Pinto A) 7-8 YOs. This season they wanted to try kid pitch the 1st two innings. Most of the kid pitchers throw hard and lots of strikes. It's generally three up and three down, even for the best batters. So some "genius" coaches decided that they were going to put their best batters at the end of the line-up so they would face coach pitch in the 3rd inning and score lots of runs. So the league had to institute a new rule that kid pitch was in the 3rd and 4th innings this way the coaches they figured would be less compelled to stack the end of their line-up and would place their best batters at the top of the order as one would expect. These type of situations happen all the time in youth sports. These coaches ruin it for all of us.

as for rules.....I have never been real good with them.
 

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