Too Many Coaches?

osagedr · Nov 23, 2016

Update from last night; right off the bat at pitching/catching the "team" PC (former pitcher with the organization but as I understand it this is her first PC gig) sees DD warming up her changeups and starts saying "Why are you working on more than 1? You only need 1!" so I figure "Ugh; was hoping to avoid this but here goes" and walked up to politely say listen, the kid has a PC and it is not fair to her to work with him Friday and hear one thing then come here on Tuesday and hear the complete opposite. She's listening with a half-smile/smirk and says "But I used to be a pitcher." When I had originally told her, at the first meeting, that DD had a PC, she had said the same thing. Like the "I was a pitcher" is some kind of trump card in this debate. In the end after we talked she was okay and we were okay I think. But I'm fearful that this whole thing is going to lead to some hard feelings.

At this point there are basically only two pitchers showing up (DD and the team's #1) for the pitching/catching sessions because of other sport commitments (apparently) from the other girls. In the half-dozen or so sessions we've had (twice per week starting earlier this month) there has only been a team catcher there twice and both times the #1 pitcher has had the catcher (I have no issue with this). So in effect it's me showing up to catch for DD - and the best case scenario is that we are left alone for awhile to work on stuff her real PC has assigned, but usually we can't even do that because the "team" PC and/or ACs are giving DD unhelpful suggestions. When she sees her real PC, I can often see her actually improve during the course of a practice. When she goes to a team pitching/catching session she is often worse at the end of the session, not to mention unhappier.

I'm thinking of just not going to the team pitching/catching anymore because it's actually counterproductive. I have indoor space at work very close to our home that we can just go to instead. After Christmas we have the opportunity to be in sessions with her "real" PC twice per week (he is the overall PC for the organization, sorry I didn't mention that before, and actually the VP of the organization. And he is crazy about DD as a student, and takes real pride in who she has become as a pitcher and his role in her becoming elite) which makes me even more inclined to not attend team pitching/catching anymore, or maybe once per week so the catchers get familiar with DD.

Appreciate everyone who has offered advice and if you have further comments to share I'm all ears.

Greenmonsters · Nov 23, 2016

Sounds like working on your own is a good plan for the interim. FWIW, not having all the catchers and pitchers get familiar pitching to/catching each other is a(nother) sign that the PC and ACs still have lots to learn!

Ken Krause · Nov 23, 2016

Osagedr, I have a question for you. In your original post you said your daughter's PC is affiliated with the team or the organization. Can't you have him talk to the HC and ACs about the situation and tell them to leave her alone? Seems like if they respect him enough to be associated with the team they should respect his work enough to listen to him.

osagedr · Nov 23, 2016

Ken Krause said:
Osagedr, I have a question for you. In your original post you said your daughter's PC is affiliated with the team or the organization. Can't you have him talk to the HC and ACs about the situation and tell them to leave her alone? Seems like if they respect him enough to be associated with the team they should respect his work enough to listen to him.

Thank you Ken. Yes, that is a good option and in fact the PC offered talk to the HC, who I think he was seeing at an organization meeting this week. I had asked him how we should handle it, but I didn't really want him to have to talk to anyone because I did not want to be perceived as a "tattletale" by the HC and/or ACs. I guess I was and am still trying to be sure that it's "okay" for me to want DD to really only get serious instruction from this one person who is such a good fit for her, while still being appreciative of the time that the other coaches take to reinforce the "real" PC's goals.

Ken Krause · Nov 23, 2016

osagedr said:
Thank you Ken. Yes, that is a good option and in fact the PC offered talk to the HC, who I think he was seeing at an organization meeting this week. I had asked him how we should handle it, but I didn't really want him to have to talk to anyone because I did not want to be perceived as a "tattletale" by the HC and/or ACs. I guess I was and am still trying to be sure that it's "okay" for me to want DD to really only get serious instruction from this one person who is such a good fit for her, while still being appreciative of the time that the other coaches take to reinforce the "real" PC's goals.

A lot of times the relationship between a team-recognized PC and the other coaches will be close enough to come off better than a parent saying something. He can probably just say "I've got it, you don't have to worry about it. That's what I'm here for."

osagedr · Nov 23, 2016

Ken Krause said:
A lot of times the relationship between a team-recognized PC and the other coaches will be close enough to come off better than a parent saying something. He can probably just say "I've got it, you don't have to worry about it. That's what I'm here for."

Thank you Ken. In fact a half hour ago I got a text from the "real" PC saying the team PC had been in touch with him regarding DD and "the plan" and they were going to discuss. I'm hopeful that it will work out okay. It's not lost on me that part of DD's development as a ballplayer is learning to take direction from coaches even when you disagree with them. It's just difficult to see time being spent unproductively when you know she improves in leaps and bounds with her "real" PC.

Doug Romrell · Nov 23, 2016

I've said this before, but it applies here....

It's been my experience that a majority of those who want to meddle (with pitching mechanics) will meddle and will not like anyone suggesting directly or indirectly that the pitcher has a pitching coach who is teacher her better than the meddler would. It's a problem of lack of humility, too much ego, and pissing matches.

One example: Your pitcher, who is using pitching mechanics stressed here on DFP, is at a high school or travel-ball practice practicing pitching. The head or assistant coach finds your pitcher's mechanics to be strange, but doesn't bug her directly regarding what she does. However, he/she yells out to the group (everyone) about how "college coaches advocate...", then proceeds to show, what we here refer to as, hello-elbow, bowling-type pitching mechanics. And, it's obvious a purposeful spit in the face of your pitcher and her pitching coach. Oh the ignorance! Oh the egos! Oh the lack of sufficient curiosity to learn! Often an impossible position for your pitcher to be in.

Joseph Sciara · Nov 24, 2016

osagedr said:
Update from last night; right off the bat at pitching/catching the "team" PC (former pitcher with the organization but as I understand it this is her first PC gig) sees DD warming up her changeups and starts saying "Why are you working on more than 1? You only need 1!" so I figure "Ugh; was hoping to avoid this but here goes" and walked up to politely say listen, the kid has a PC and it is not fair to her to work with him Friday and hear one thing then come here on Tuesday and hear the complete opposite. She's listening with a half-smile/smirk and says "But I used to be a pitcher." When I had originally told her, at the first meeting, that DD had a PC, she had said the same thing. Like the "I was a pitcher" is some kind of trump card in this debate. In the end after we talked she was okay and we were okay I think. But I'm fearful that this whole thing is going to lead to some hard feelings.

At this point there are basically only two pitchers showing up (DD and the team's #1) for the pitching/catching sessions because of other sport commitments (apparently) from the other girls. In the half-dozen or so sessions we've had (twice per week starting earlier this month) there has only been a team catcher there twice and both times the #1 pitcher has had the catcher (I have no issue with this). So in effect it's me showing up to catch for DD - and the best case scenario is that we are left alone for awhile to work on stuff her real PC has assigned, but usually we can't even do that because the "team" PC and/or ACs are giving DD unhelpful suggestions. When she sees her real PC, I can often see her actually improve during the course of a practice. When she goes to a team pitching/catching session she is often worse at the end of the session, not to mention unhappier.

I'm thinking of just not going to the team pitching/catching anymore because it's actually counterproductive. I have indoor space at work very close to our home that we can just go to instead. After Christmas we have the opportunity to be in sessions with her "real" PC twice per week (he is the overall PC for the organization, sorry I didn't mention that before, and actually the VP of the organization. And he is crazy about DD as a student, and takes real pride in who she has become as a pitcher and his role in her becoming elite) which makes me even more inclined to not attend team pitching/catching anymore, or maybe once per week so the catchers get familiar with DD.

Appreciate everyone who has offered advice and if you have further comments to share I'm all ears.

A couple things I picked up. First, your organization needs to have stronger leadership. If there is an organizational PC, then all ACs and others giving pitching instruction in the organization should be following their mechanics/style. Every teams assistant that works with pitchers should first go train under the organizational PC.

Second, I'm wandering if your daughter is getting discouraged, or if she is picking up the negative vibes from elsewhere(mom or dad)? I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just saying to be very careful what you discuss in front of your daughter. You don't want her to get the label of "uncoachable kid", especially if she's not...The girls on our team are currently participating in college exposure camps. I cringe when I see what some coaches at very high levels are teaching (most are very good, but some...). It's good if your daughter learns early to be flexible with instruction, and be able to return to her form after she shows the coaches that she is able to adapt.

Third, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm wandering about the 2 changeup thing myself. Every girl I've seen try and do this has two below average change ups. Maybe your daughter is young enough that she is trying to decide which she is most comfortable with, but at some point is the goal to pick 1 and perfect it? It kind of reminds me of the football analogy that says if you have 2 starting QBs, then you really have none. Can you just give us your plan with this? I'm just really interested in the thought process.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Joseph Sciara · Nov 24, 2016

Wander=wonder. Sorry. Darn Ipad

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

CoachJD · Nov 24, 2016

Doug Romrell said:
I've said this before, but it applies here....

It's been my experience that a majority of those who want to meddle (with pitching mechanics) will meddle and will not like anyone suggesting directly or indirectly that the pitcher has a pitching coach who is teacher her better than the meddler would. It's a problem of lack of humility, too much ego, and pissing matches.

One example: Your pitcher, who is using pitching mechanics stressed here on DFP, is at a high school or travel-ball practice practicing pitching. The head or assistant coach finds your pitcher's mechanics to be strange, but doesn't bug her directly regarding what she does. However, he/she yells out to the group (everyone) about how "college coaches advocate...", then proceeds to show, what we here refer to as, hello-elbow, bowling-type pitching mechanics. And, it's obvious a purposeful spit in the face of your pitcher and her pitching coach. Oh the ignorance! Oh the egos! Oh the lack of sufficient curiosity to learn! Often an impossible position for your pitcher to be in.

Here's the flip side to that and how to handle it: I need to meddle with one of the pitchers on my high school team. Her sister pitched in HS (though she was primarily a catcher). Her parents coach her in rec league. She's been taught HE mechanics, and while she's getting better using those mechanics (and has the most upside as a pitcher of all the girls at the school), she's obviously nowhere near where she could be.

Anything I tell her is going to be seen as meddling (and I suppose it is, in a way). Now, I'm hardly an expert in the mechanics discussed here, but I understand the basics and I understand why I/R is better. But since I'm not an expert pitching coach and she has multiple influences working against what I want to teach her, it's going to be tough to get her pitching the right way.

It's a twist on what I usually read here (parents who know what's best for their DDs/high school coaches who don't have a clue but insist on teaching it "their way"). Not sure how to handle it.

Too Many Coaches?

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